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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - 3DS being supported for the specs is a bad reason.

Khuutra said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Khuutra said:

I claimed nothing of the sort.

Then perhaps I misunderstood your post. If you mean the support for the system makes a richer software environment, that actually bring it back to my point of this thread. If they were supporting it for the sake of making great games for it, that would lead to the richer software environment. My concern is that they are supporting it just to show off what they can do with the specs, which will just lead to further game decay like the HD systems (such as the genre hemonginizing that happened).

Allow me to clarify.

The addition of any software studios who would not be working on the platform otherwise necessarily diversifies and broadens the 3DS software environment. Regardless of whether they're doing it for the right reasons or the wrong reasons, they are absolutely going to expand and enrich the library - if we are willing to assume (reasonably) that they will not be taking away from efforts that would have been leveled otherwise. Considering that the "Ooo, specs!" developers tend to be developers or teams who didn't support the DS, I don't see where we would be losing anything by gaining their games, even if you think of those games as homogeneous.


Well Capcom would be a good indicator. They left RE5 off the Wii (hopefully just for now) for the wrong reasons (specs, not potential sales which were proven good by RE4), and a common complaint about RE5 is that it's just a flashier RE4 that slaps on some Gears of War elements.

If their 3DS games are also just pretty RE4 knockoffs (RE4's team threw out one of the builds specifically to avoid being a knockoff of the remake of RE1 that 0 was), then it will be the same problem. If they are not, then we really are getting an enriched software library.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

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I think the current developer support has nothing to do with the specs, it was obvious that the next generation handheld would be more powerful (shame on Ninty if it didn't!), I think it has to do with 3 things:

 

1- the success of the current DS: the DS is about to become the console/handheld with more units sold (sorry PS2). Developers know that many people will jump ship to the 3DS once it launches and they don't want to miss a piece of the pie.

2- 3D: everything right  now is 3D. Movies, games, pictures, etc. 3D is the new entertainment industry darling and developers know many people are eagerly awaiting an affordable, glasses free 3D experience.

3- The hype after the announcement: you know how it went after the 3DS announcement, press was really enthusiastic, fanboys were crying tears of joy and lots of people know about the existence of the handheld. Seems like many people are willing to hand over the cash to get one, and software is what makes a console (with exceptions like the Wii and it's lack of third party support).

 

Just my 2 cents.



Developers choosing higher power systems aren't being lazy.. They're choosing the systems they think can best allow themselves to maximize the vision they have for their games. 

Imagine yourself as somebody wanting to craft a game, no matter what it is you'd want the system that could maximize your vision. You'd want it to be the best it could possibly be and that's why devs don't like lower powered systems.. Unfortunately sometimes this feeling of wanting their game to be the best out there is detrimental (i.e. budgets blow out and studios go under) but you can understand why devs choose this path..



 

"Developers choosing higher power systems aren't being lazy.. They're choosing the systems they think can best allow themselves to maximize the vision they have for their games."

It actually takes more effort to realize a vision with less materials, as it encourages creativity, and even being forced to throw things away that are superfluous to the vision.

So it is lazy to just maximize it, since it means you don't have to be as creatively adept as you would be with more limitations.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

LordTheNightKnight said:

"Developers choosing higher power systems aren't being lazy.. They're choosing the systems they think can best allow themselves to maximize the vision they have for their games."

It actually takes more effort to realize a vision with less materials, as it encourages creativity, and even being forced to throw things away that are superfluous to the vision.

So it is lazy to just maximize it, since it means you don't have to be as creatively adept as you would be with more limitations.


Of course it takes more effort to realize a vision with less available horsepower, but there is a difference between say choosing a PS1 over a N64 and delivering a game that realized that vision compared with choosing a Wii over a 360 or PS3 and delivering a title that would be comparable to one you could have achieved on one of the latter systems.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that yes, having limitations inspires creativity in ways that wouldn't have been thought of earlier (The entire Wii series wouldn't have ever been designed had Nintendo gone with a GameCube 2) but it's the mindset of a game designer I'm trying to get across to you.. The fact that they have this team, they have these ideas and they want to be able to do everything everybody else is doing and more. 

 

As for the 3DS, it's a strong platform but it's the combination of that strong hardware, the unique aspects that made the DS perform so well, the controls that are much more suitable to experiences developers these days want to craft and the 3D hook that is causing developers to say 'hot damn I wanna make a game for that!'

Without the horsepower being there, a lot of the things the 3DS is capable of now (multitasking, 3D, AR etc) wouldn't be possible and it just wouldn't be as attractive as it currently is. 

Now I can understand your argument as I also think that limitations in hardware brings out the best in devs and thus brings us the best games. However wouldn't Nintendo limiting the specs because of that be worse than giving it some more power so that third parties are happier? I would hate for the 3DS to turn into another Wii two years into it's lifespan.



 

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At least it's being supported. It's a good start. Sure, there are good-looking ports from other consoles that are probably going to end up playing bad, but at least publishers and devs have interested in the 3DS.



puffy said:
LordTheNightKnight said:

"Developers choosing higher power systems aren't being lazy.. They're choosing the systems they think can best allow themselves to maximize the vision they have for their games."

It actually takes more effort to realize a vision with less materials, as it encourages creativity, and even being forced to throw things away that are superfluous to the vision.

So it is lazy to just maximize it, since it means you don't have to be as creatively adept as you would be with more limitations.


Of course it takes more effort to realize a vision with less available horsepower, but there is a difference between say choosing a PS1 over a N64 and delivering a game that realized that vision compared with choosing a Wii over a 360 or PS3 and delivering a title that would be comparable to one you could have achieved on one of the latter systems.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that yes, having limitations inspires creativity in ways that wouldn't have been thought of earlier (The entire Wii series wouldn't have ever been designed had Nintendo gone with a GameCube 2) but it's the mindset of a game designer I'm trying to get across to you.. The fact that they have this team, they have these ideas and they want to be able to do everything everybody else is doing and more. 

 

As for the 3DS, it's a strong platform but it's the combination of that strong hardware, the unique aspects that made the DS perform so well, the controls that are much more suitable to experiences developers these days want to craft and the 3D hook that is causing developers to say 'hot damn I wanna make a game for that!'

Without the horsepower being there, a lot of the things the 3DS is capable of now (multitasking, 3D, AR etc) wouldn't be possible and it just wouldn't be as attractive as it currently is. 

Now I can understand your argument as I also think that limitations in hardware brings out the best in devs and thus brings us the best games. However wouldn't Nintendo limiting the specs because of that be worse than giving it some more power so that third parties are happier? I would hate for the 3DS to turn into another Wii two years into it's lifespan.


Well that clearly wasn't Nintendo's fault, which is a big part of the laziness I meant there.

And I know the specs are for other reasons than just developer support. My point is that developers should support it for reasons other than the specs.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

nope, i think they are good enough, which is different from a ps3 ish aproach.

 

Lets say PSp2 if it comes out (and it should and quickly before 3ds gobbles any hopes). lets say sony has no choice but overpack it with multiprocessors, 5 gigs of ram and so forth. More power than a ps3 lets say. And more expensive than the 3ds as a result.Duper graphics, more than devs need.will it work as a business?probably not.Devs just want a system where they can put the standart graphics ,baseline ones. If it can, they are happy and work with it.Also, i think 3ds hits the sweet spot .How can i explain this:

At this point in tech, you can develop games with source engine or MIT engine without huge money and time sinks.Its decent looking engine, and it wont drain half of your development team time and money.Games come quickly and are profitable.

However, theres upper tier tech.U4 engine for instance or the new ID engine.Thats muuch more expensive  and takes ridiculous amount of money and time. So when the game is released, it has to sell multibillions or lose huge amounts of money that often bankrupts developers.On a portable ,the improvement visually wont be as noticeable, so by all means is a mistake. 3ds has enough power to handle comonplance high end visuals that are quickly programmeable.

I think wii wouldnt have gotten worse games if it had more power.Well not more often than not.

There is a true point tho.if wii baseline visuals were higher, some games would have been unaceptable visually.Ergo, for them to exist would take 2 posibilities.Spend more time and money in graphics, or take part of the development time on pushing engines rather than cleaning gameplay.Some wii games wouldnt exist ,and some would have less gameplay features.

I just think 3ds looks good and is friendly to a wider range of developers than ds was. Which is a great thing.



Eh, as long as they make good games, I couldn't really care less about the "why."



Metallicube said:

Eh, as long as they make good games, I couldn't really care less about the "why."


My point is that particular why tends to make less good games, as quality is not just in the specs.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs