"the poster I was talking to is anti-trans when he previously tried to present himself as a neutral observer following wherever the research leads. "

hopefully he will explain himself

"those that choose to transition want to change their sex. Changing the social constructs of gender will not necessarily fix this. "

but they want to change their sex to make it align with their gender correct?

what i'm asking is that since we know that gender is changeable since it is a social construct why can't we just change their gender?

"I invite the poster in question to legitimize his claims then."

me too

It's possible that in a society that has abolished gender as a concept there would be fewer transgender individuals, but my understanding is some would still feel like they were meant to have a penis when they have a vagina (or vice versa) and thus sexual reassignment would still be a viable and useful technique. 

oh you are a gender abolitionist?

"but my understanding is some would still feel like they were meant to have a penis when they have a vagina"

why would that be the case if the social makeup of society has dismissed with the idea of man and woman?

"The world where you think people change gender because it's cool or trendy doesn't exist.  "

I'm not the one claiming gender is a social construct, wasn't that you?

if its a social construct why can't that be the case?

"manipulated into changing genders doesn't exist.  "

people who have regretted their transition and claim otherwise exist, but not for you apparently

an example : https://twitter.com/ftmdetransed?lang=en

"Your ludicrous fears aren't based on reality, they are based off a pseudo-understanding of the issue that itself is based off propaganda for concerns that don't have any basis in reality.  "

I'm not expected to address this right? I mean all you do is assert that I fear something and assert that nothing I've said is based in reality, even though I gave examples

what do you think I fear?

"While you may not realize it, you basically just asked "Isn't it easier to change all of society than it is to let someone transition?""

no I'm just looking at this idea of gender being a social construct which I understand to mean that every individual has a projected idea of themself as man or woman and its socially constructed so it can be changed

what I'm asking is why can't we just change that instead of all the surgery and stuff, or am I not understanding the idea?

"I mean, no it isn't actually, but it would be a hell of a lot easier if it weren't for people like you."

what can I say, I don't just blindly accept things that don't make sense to me, I'd tell a fundamentalist christian the same thing, I don't see why this should get a pass

To keep it simple: A social construct indicates that SOCIETY (hence the word "social") creates an idea of what is masculine and what is feminine and separates the two. As such, it is not the individual who constructs this, it is society. The individual then identifies with the preexisting social norms through their gender identity (and every individual, not just transgendered individuals, do this).

That identity is not socially constructed.

As such, in order to change these "social constructs", you would have to change all of society to rid it of basically the idea of masculinity and femininity which is an impossibly vast undertaking.

Virtually the whole issue seems to hinge on your inability to understand gender and social constructs, which I would forgive if this stuff hadn't been explained to you dozens of times already. At this point, there is no excuse beyond not wanting to understand.

"Virtually the whole issue seems to hinge on your inability to understand gender and social constructs, which I would forgive if this stuff hadn't been explained to you dozens of times already."

no its because of the constant flip flopping on the positions that people like yourself have been doing

when I have proposed before that people could identify as cats or whatever you guys have then told me it was ludicrous to propose that which again contradicts the position you are proposing right now

so do you concede that people can identify as cats and non-human entities now?

"As such, in order to change these "social constructs", you would have to change all of society to rid it of basically the idea of masculinity and femininity which is an impossibly vast undertaking."

doesn't it seem pretty silly to you to argue simultaneously that femininity and masculinity are just projections from society while at the same time arguing that people innately have these constructs within themselves?

you seem to be arguing here that they are separate, that the identity is presumably an innate metaphysical aspect of the person like a soul but yet it still has the same tendencies to align to masculine or feminine that we see projected by society... doesn't something strike you as a bit odd there?

"That identity is not socially constructed."

sounds a lot like a soul, maybe christians and progressives are coming together after all

Let me ask you a question real quick:

Do you think that the color pink being Feminine is genetic or objective, or do you think that is defined by society?

""Most of the people" (so don't @ me with that "not all people" nonsense) against transgenderism tend to be religious in nature. And the notion that a person is born with the incorrect biological sex directly suggests that God made a mistake."

if this is targeted at me, trust me you are barking up the wrong tree with the religious stuff

"So let's cut the crap. It's not about the psychology, not about the harm, not about any of that."

yeah as I've said previously my concern here is mostly personal, I just don't see why I should be expected to play along with an ideology that doesn't make sense to me

I think what really got me was the absolutely ridiculous idea that a man is a woman if he chooses to identify as such... I'm sorry but that's fucking retarded 

in terms of the harm and stuff, I mean it sucks that some people get screwed up, but what can I do about that?

"It's about transgenderism challenging the fundamental concept of a perfect God."

well I personally wouldn't see it that way

"And all that other stuff are just smokescreens to hide it so they can claim they are debating against it on valid grounds rather than what they really see it as...a slight against God."

*shrugs* well I've kind of laid out my motivations several times now

I don't know, but come on its kind of silly to say that's all societal

lets look at women's behavior for example since I was just talking to a buddy about that

you think women's greater fear of men and statistically higher levels of neuroticism is all because of societal projection? or maybe the biological reality of being smaller than men plays a significant part?

what about their sexual preferences typically for taller and bigger men? might the same biological factors not play a role?

well to me the answer is obvious, there are biological realities at play here not just the patriarchy

those biological factors create behaviors that layer together with our innate impulses and of course our experiences with the outside world

I know its getting popular to just look at the pink blue shit and arrive at the idea that its all a social construct but you aren't really looking at things rationally if that's as deep as you get