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Wyrdness said:
EricHiggin said:

You missed the point.

Trump see's horrible deals, however they were made, and renegotiates. He uses leverage if necessary as well. It's what smart people with spines do. Yes, they have more leverage because of who they are, but it doesn't mean jack if you don't ever use what leverage you have. Stop doing bad things or we'll give you a bunch of money to do so, lol.

No the UK isn't what it once was, but it's like your saying it's greatness is gone forever and can never be rekindled. One big reason the UK has lost much of it's presence is because it's gone soft, which is another reason why the US is also slowly losing relevance.

In an abusive relationship, is it better to remain or to leave, even if leaving means 'struggling' for a while on your own? Better to stay and continue getting beat down?

Difference is with Trump these deals are already in place and he just impulsively makes a move with out letting anyone beforehand the rest of your sentence doesn't make any sense as the isn't any context as to what you're referring to.

No the reason the UK has lost much of its greatness is because the world has caught up and overtaken us it's a tough pill for a number of people to swallow, we're still classed as a nuclear power yet have outdated subs etc... Fact is the era of us being what we once were is long gone and the current era is more about collective strength than individual and it's something that is hard for people to accept going forward.

The relationship was never abusive to begin with which is why Brexiteers like Farage now deny saying some of the claims they made during the leave campaign the debacle was Cameron gambling to win against Milliband.

Not all deals are always in place. Many countries, like the US in the past, would threaten using leverage, but then fold and offer money instead, if they even threatened in the first place.

If the UK would have remained hard and kept it's foot on the gas, it would 'own' NA. They went soft and ever since they've paid the price, yet the world looks at leaders like Trump and wonders why he's such a hard ass. Collective strength because people somehow think wanting more for doing less is a good idea. Problem is it comes with consequences that are worse than the benefits.

That's like saying the 'relationships' within the US haven't been abusive, and that Trump became President solely because... Russia? 'Nobody' saw that coming, just like 'nobody' saw Brexit coming, just like 'nobody' could have predicted what's going on in France right now.

How leaky does the faucet need to get before someone realizes that means there's a problem and it needs to be solved sooner than later or it'll just get worse?



I have an honest question? What advantage is there to leave with the deal that May has? And does anyone think the EU will give a better deal? And what advantage is there to leave with this better ideal deal? And finally what are the advantages of no deal? All for the UK of course. Feels like you are screwed in all scenarios to an outsider like me



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Bofferbrauer2 said:
Pyro as Bill said:

'The EU could treat you like Iran'........fine, go for it.

We buy more from the EU than they buy from us. Block away. It's not like we aren't used to some continental power attempting to blockade us every few decades.

British manufacturing was paid/subsidised to move to eastern europe.

Just like american manufacturing, there was no need to pay or subsidize anything, cheaper labor does than for itself

And speaking about labor, if you crash out of the EU, say goodbye to the rest of manufacturing, be it Jaguar, Rolls Royce, BAe or Airbus as it will be much cheaper and easier to produce in mainland Europe than continuing in the UK. Especially true for Airbus, who have to move personnel from one plant to another on regular basis, but that will become much more difficult after a hard Brexit. And that's after the banks leaving the City (many already doing so) since most went there to be trading in the EU

We have more of the top universities than all of the EU combined. Hell, even Australia, Canada, Singapore and Hong Kong do. Hmmm I wonder if they have anything in common.

Our financial sector leaving London for Paris or Frankfurt has been one of the funniest claims in this whole Brexit game. It epitomises how deluded EU-ers are.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

I can‘t wait for the day England leaves the EU.



Eagle367 said:
You guys are stuck in a shitstorm either way. The Europeans in UK will suffer and so will The brits, scotts etc outside of UK in EU. The irish will suffer without a deal and might even with a deal. If you get a deal, the best you'll get is that you'll still essentially be in the EU, just without any proper power this time. If you leave without no deal, it's gonna be tough roads ahead. You are not getting a better deal whether the incompetent tories go or any other party. The 2 real options are no deal or new referendum. Your gov didn't inform the people of the real implications of leaving and now you must go through this painful transition period. It might be a worthwhile struggle that makes you stronger as a nation afterwards or it might be a useless effort that weakens you, I can't say. But I don't think you should just accept whatever offer is given to you because that would mean you are a somewhat pathetic nation and degrade your dignity and respect further in the world

If the UK leaving would hurt them so badly that the people would beg to return to the EU, the EU would just let them go. 3-5 Years of slightly less power in the EU would be well worth it to get the UK back into the group, and locked in tight with even less leverage than before.

The reason the EU wouldn't want this, is because there is a good chance the UK will be just fine, and when other fed up EU nations and their people see that, they will push to leave as well.



EricHiggin said:
Eagle367 said:
You guys are stuck in a shitstorm either way. The Europeans in UK will suffer and so will The brits, scotts etc outside of UK in EU. The irish will suffer without a deal and might even with a deal. If you get a deal, the best you'll get is that you'll still essentially be in the EU, just without any proper power this time. If you leave without no deal, it's gonna be tough roads ahead. You are not getting a better deal whether the incompetent tories go or any other party. The 2 real options are no deal or new referendum. Your gov didn't inform the people of the real implications of leaving and now you must go through this painful transition period. It might be a worthwhile struggle that makes you stronger as a nation afterwards or it might be a useless effort that weakens you, I can't say. But I don't think you should just accept whatever offer is given to you because that would mean you are a somewhat pathetic nation and degrade your dignity and respect further in the world

If the UK leaving would hurt them so badly that the people would beg to return to the EU, the EU would just let them go. 3-5 Years of slightly less power in the EU would be well worth it to get the UK back into the group, and locked in tight with even less leverage than before.

The reason the EU wouldn't want this, is because there is a good chance the UK will be just fine, and when other fed up EU nations and their people see that, they will push to leave as well.

Aren't they doing that right now though? Like with the deal they are offering, it seems like they want no deal in essence



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

EricHiggin said:

Not all deals are always in place. Many countries, like the US in the past, would threaten using leverage, but then fold and offer money instead, if they even threatened in the first place.

If the UK would have remained hard and kept it's foot on the gas, it would 'own' NA. They went soft and ever since they've paid the price, yet the world looks at leaders like Trump and wonders why he's such a hard ass. Collective strength because people somehow think wanting more for doing less is a good idea. Problem is it comes with consequences that are worse than the benefits.

That's like saying the 'relationships' within the US haven't been abusive, and that Trump became President solely because... Russia? 'Nobody' saw that coming, just like 'nobody' saw Brexit coming, just like 'nobody' could have predicted what's going on in France right now.

How leaky does the faucet need to get before someone realizes that means there's a problem and it needs to be solved sooner than later or it'll just get worse?

UK didn't get soft the rest of the world caught up and became just as hard trust me NA would have destroyed us regardless because one it costs a lot of resources to maintain an empire and two no nation will ever have enough to maintain and keep hold of empires that's why so many countries rapidly obtained independence as it was costing far more to have and maintain the empire than to not have it, the UK would have collapsed trying to keep it running so the same outcome would have happened if the UK tried to be hard as you put it only the nation would be in a much weaker state today than it is. Collective strength isn't about doing less it's accepting that in the long run you have more relevance than trying to go it alone.

Brexit had clear signs because for years parties like the BNP and UKIP have blamed the EU for the UK's problems when many of them were our own design and fault the Tories further added to this with the referendum as a gamble to beat Milliband while using the EU as a negative against Labour, our media for years have also been blaming the EU so the seeds were already sown it's no different to Trump getting elected as Hilary wasn't a popular choice either so the Democrats actually gave Trump the best chance he had by backing her. EU is not perfect but it's far from abusive.

You don't solve a leaky facet by smashing the sink with a sledge hammer and having no idea on how to repair it, you need an actual plan.



Eagle367 said:
I have an honest question?

What advantage is there to leave with the deal that May has?

None.

And does anyone think the EU will give a better deal?

Not without the real threat of 'no deal'

And what advantage is there to leave with this better ideal deal?

Who doesn't love free trade? Oh yeah, the EU.

And finally what are the advantages of no deal?

We pay world prices instead of world prices + 10-400% tariffs (aka EU prices).

All for the UK of course. Feels like you are screwed in all scenarios to an outsider like me.

UK will be able to take full advantage of emerging markets and tailor trade to our own economy without worrying about what Italian tomato growers think.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

Pyro as Bill said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Just like american manufacturing, there was no need to pay or subsidize anything, cheaper labor does than for itself

And speaking about labor, if you crash out of the EU, say goodbye to the rest of manufacturing, be it Jaguar, Rolls Royce, BAe or Airbus as it will be much cheaper and easier to produce in mainland Europe than continuing in the UK. Especially true for Airbus, who have to move personnel from one plant to another on regular basis, but that will become much more difficult after a hard Brexit. And that's after the banks leaving the City (many already doing so) since most went there to be trading in the EU

We have more of the top universities than all of the EU combined. Hell, even Australia, Canada, Singapore and Hong Kong do. Hmmm I wonder if they have anything in common.

Our financial sector leaving London for Paris or Frankfurt has been one of the funniest claims in this whole Brexit game. It epitomises how deluded EU-ers are.

@bolded: What does it have to do with Brexit? And where can I see those rankings?

Not all the financial sector of course, but a substantial part of it will do/is on the way already - like I said, those who went to London specifically to be at a financial center somewhere in the EU, and that ain't just a few banks



Pyro as Bill said:

Eagle367 said:
I have an honest question?

What advantage is there to leave with the deal that May has?

None.

And does anyone think the EU will give a better deal?

Not without the real threat of 'no deal'

And what advantage is there to leave with this better ideal deal?

Who doesn't love free trade? Oh yeah, the EU.

And finally what are the advantages of no deal?

We pay world prices instead of world prices + 10-400% tariffs (aka EU prices).

All for the UK of course. Feels like you are screwed in all scenarios to an outsider like me.

UK will be able to take full advantage of emerging markets and tailor trade to our own economy without worrying about what Italian tomato growers think.

You're oversimplifying things quite a bit here. I mean It's not like the EU is a sperate entity. UK made decisions in the EU and was party to making all the decisions of the EU. UK, France and Germany are big players in shaping the EU. And the myth about EU officials not being elected is also just that, a myth.  You're also ignoring the pros of being in the EU of which there are sure to be many. A genuine answer would be something like comparing and contrasting. This just seems like something you wouldn't even tell a child unless you question their intelligence(No offense).



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also