RageBot said:
At least I have one :) Yours is still "they like the story just cause!". |
If you have an argument to show that my last post is wrong just show it, otherwise just stop trying to make you appear to have some kind of reason.
S-E has indeed become lazy. But they make games with pretty pictures, so no reviewer will ever come out and say that.
Complexity is not depth. Machismo is not maturity. Obsession is not dedication. Tedium is not challenge. Support gaming: support the Wii.
Be the ultimate ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today! Poisson Village welcomes new players.
Hisiru said:
If you have an argument to show that my last post is wrong just show it, otherwise just stop trying to make you appear to have some kind of reason. |
...
Let me get this straight, I give you evidence that what made FF and DQ great, in Japan, from the first place, was the gameplay, based on the fact that their story was shitty, to the point where no one will buy the game solely for it, and also supply the fact that the greatest selling game in the genre has no plot and characters to talk about (Pokemon) all contribute to the fact that what sells most JRPGs in Japan is their gameplay.
A point like you just made doesn't prove in any way to the story being the main contributer to the game sales, because they were also the first JRPGs in their time, gameplay-wise.
I don't disagree with the fact that Japanese gamers care about the story more than Western ones, however, what made Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Monster Hunter and Pokemon great in Japan wasn't story, but gameplay.
Bet with Dr.A.Peter.Nintendo that Super Mario Galaxy 2 won't sell 15 million copies up to six months after it's release, the winner will get Avatar control for a week and signature control for a month.
RageBot said:
... Let me get this straight, I give you evidence that what made FF and DQ great, in Japan, from the first place, was the gameplay, based on the fact that their story was shitty, to the point where no one will buy the game solely for it, and also supply the fact that the greatest selling game in the genre has no plot and characters to talk about (Pokemon) all contribute to the fact that what sells most JRPGs in Japan is their gameplay. A point like you just made doesn't prove in any way to the story being the main contributer to the game sales, because they were also the first JRPGs in their time, gameplay-wise. I don't disagree with the fact that Japanese gamers care about the story more than Western ones, however, what made Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Monster Hunter and Pokemon great in Japan wasn't story, but gameplay. |
What is so special about the gameplay in Dragon Quest? This game uses the most classic and basic type of gameplay, the same goes for FF 1 and 2. Again, FF and DQ were the best options on the NES for an RPG fan, that's why they sold.
Your analogy about Pokémon is wrong because Pokémon has one of the most basic gameplays ever just like DQ and FF, the only difference is that you can catch monsters. Also, it's the idea (catch/collect monsters) that makes Pokémon so special and not the gameplay. The anime just gave more popularity to this franchise. The focus on pokémon is collect monsters and get badges, so it doesn't need a storyline.
And using your analogy, we (western) don't like storyline too, since WoW and Ragnarok are very popular here.
That's my point!
There's nothing really "special" about it, just like there's nothing special about Mario games, Just like Blizzard games, it's that the gameplay is highly polished and refined, that's exactly my point.
Pokemon is the same, but with a very important "multiplayer" component
And in the west, we sure don't like Story to the same level that the Japanese do, look at the sales ofstory focused games here.
A game's gameplay doesn't need to be special in order to be good.
Bet with Dr.A.Peter.Nintendo that Super Mario Galaxy 2 won't sell 15 million copies up to six months after it's release, the winner will get Avatar control for a week and signature control for a month.
| RageBot said: So basically you say that because they didn't sell in Japan they didn't have a good story, and that because DQ sells in Japan it had a good story, yet in no way, shape or form did you prove a reason for why do you think it is the story that sells the game in Japan, while I point to sales of earlier DQ and FF that had shitty stories and sold bucketloads :) And about cliches - you can't have a story without ones because litereature exists for over 2500 years, you can't make a story where everything is new, Xenogears is known for combining a lot of different ideas, many of which are not cliche, to a massive complete package. About Terranigma, again, I was talking about Western forums, not Japanese ones. You really are good at arguments sometimes but you lost this one. Now try finding a reason for proving that they sold based on stories other than the facts that: A. You like the stories B. The games sold a lot in Japan While overcoming the point that: C. The games still sold a lot in the earlier games which had shitty plots, while sales of the sereis increased on par with regular market growth. go go go! |
No, I'm not seriously suggesting those other RPGs didn't sell as well due to stories, I'm simply refuting your ungrounded notions of "western cult classics" as meaning anything. I guess sarcasm doesn't come through well enough on the internet. You'll also notice DQ didn't hit multimillions until the stories and histories evolved deeper though.
And "everything's a cliche" isn't an excuse for Xenogears' disjointed, ridiculous, kitchen sink storyline. Complexity doesn't equal depth, and Xenogears proves how convolution and superficiality can go hand in hand. It's the textbook definition of "shitty story" imo.
Terranigma (in the west) is beloved due to it's game design. Christ, it's an action RPG, and just recycles the same theme of all Quintet games (rebuilding the world) with a more "badass" hero this time.
I don't care about these comments, I want Squaresoft and chrono bakc...
Nintendo has pikmin working for them
Square has Chocobo's working for them
Pikmin has hands
Chocobo's don't
nuff said....
Gaming make me feel GOOD!
Haha, is this a troll post or something?
| morenoingrato said: Ok, before bashing, I'm not going to Final Fantasy series because they are all really good |
Well, no, they really aren't. Some of them are pretty bad. But moving on.
| morenoingrato said: Some years ago, a company was making a fan game called Chrono Resurrection, it had 10 scenes from the game in full 3D graphics, sadly in 2004, Square made the project cancelled...... so.... why are they lazy? |
CT:R was an unlicensed derivative work. They sent a cease and desist to the individuals who were producing it because they wanted to protect their intellectual property. They had every right to do that. If the creators of CT:R really wanted to see it released to the general public then they wouldn't have created an official website, put out a release date or attached their real names to it.
| morenoingrato said: Because some years after that they ironically anouced a remake that turned out to be a port to the ds with some new features added. Case closed |
First of all, that isn't ironic. If you really thought that the cease and desist letter was evidence that an official 3D CT was forthcoming, then you were naive. Secondly, I'm pretty sure they never said it would be anything other than a DS port, which is what plenty of people I know were expecting for a number of years. So yeah, what?
p.s. Haha, did someone seriously say that Xenogears wasn't silly and cliched? Hilarious.
^^^ why it is a troll post?
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