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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Bitterness in the Wii fandom?

Demotruk on 17 January 2010
killeryoshis said:
What anthor thread about wii should get X because of X reason. Come on guys you aren't talking with delvopers. Your talking to people who have no saying in the industry. It doesn't matter if you win or lose. Give up. You can't change somone. Did people in the NES days complain that they lacked 3rd party support. No(maybe but we had no internet) The fight isn't worth it.

By the third year of the NES it was flooded with support. The Japanese developers were on board early on, and plenty of smaller Western developers jumped on board. The big Western third parties of the time like EA didn't, but it was much easier for smaller companies to get into NES development than Wii development. Most bigger third party developers of this time went bankrupt.



A game I'm developing with some friends:

www.xnagg.com/zombieasteroids/publish.htm

It is largely a technical exercise but feedback is appreciated.

Around the Network
killeryoshis on 17 January 2010
theRepublic said:
Carl2291 said:
theRepublic said:
Carl2291 said:

Would all depend on how you defne "big". But anyway...

That's the whole point of what im saying. Why would the 3rd parties bother to make big huge blockbuster games for Wii, when party games are outselling certain efforts by 2:1 (in the lowest case) and making millions upon millions... When those said blockbusters are selling so well on PS360?

I'll give you an example, using a big hit game you gave me.
Call of Duty: World at War (launched day and date with PS360 versions) - 1.40M (PS3 - 3.81 360 - 6.15)
Carnival Games, Game Party, Deca Sports - 3.54M, 2.17M, 2.14M

Now, what impression do you think that has on developers?

Do you notice how all those minigame collections you used were all released early in the Wii's life and their sequels have performed poorly?  It is clear that consumers do not want any more of those.

This CoD: World at War thing has been done to death, but sure, let's go over it again.  CoD 3 on the Wii outsold the PS3 version.  The next year, the PS3 and 360 get the break-out hit CoD 4: Modern Warfare, while the Wii gets nothing.  Then, the following year, all the consoles get W@W.  The difference here is that W@W got to ride on the success of MW on the PS3 and 360, but not on the Wii.  Then of course there is the removed features on the Wii version of W@W that make it less desirable.

It is just more of what we have seen for the past three generations.  Third party publishers treat Nintendo consoles like a red-headed step-child, and expect the same results as they get on other consoles.  It is ridiculous.

I could name a few recent ones that are managing to sell pretty well. 

I can understand the lack of CoD4 hurting the WaW sales on Wii, but what was the reason for a lack of CoD4?

WHY do they treat Ninty like that?

The lack of CoD 4 on the Wii was because the engine wasn't ready in time.  It was ready for W@W, which is why the Wii got that game on time.  It was further optimized, and was used again in the recent port of MW.  For the other two consoles, I don't think that excuse would go over very well.

Why do they treat Nintendo like that?  I don't know.  You would have to ask them.

Don't go into a arguement not knowing the flaws of it. That's no excuse. Why did we get call of duty 3 huh?



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forest-spirit on 17 January 2010
_honeybadger_ said:
forest-spirit said:
This thread irritates me in the way "PS3 fanboys are the worst"-topics do.
A minority of the fanbase are very vocal and thus some people see the whole fanbase as idiots.


You know what, I'm sick and tired of this, I am just a gamer who happens to prefer Wii but I'm not some fanatic who praise Nintendo everytime they open their mouth. I don't lick Reggie's toes.

Some Nintendo fans really are annoying in how they drop all logic and sense in defending their God and take every bit of criticism against Nintendo as a terrorist attack. I hate it, not only is it annoying to see these people use the company I love just to defend their own egos, but it makes some people think all Nintendo fans behave like that, and we get "Nintendo fans are ignorant", "Nintendo fans are blind", etc.
(This can be applied to the fanbase of Microsoft and Sony as well.)

Something else I'm tired of hearing is that I'm ignorant or an idiot for being satisfied with the library my console of choice have. I'm perfectly fine with the games I can get for the Wii, and I'll probably not have enough time to play through all the games I want before this gen is over. That's just me, it's because of my taste in gaming.
Everyone will not be satisfied in owning only Wii though, I'm fully aware of that, I wouldn't be satisfied in owning only a 360 or a PS3 because I want to play Metroid and Zelda, but again, it's because of my taste and I won't hate on other people for not sharing my opinion. That would just make me look like an idiot and show how limited I am.

End of meltdown. Now I'm gonna have some bitter cake.

Clap, Clap, Clap.

 

I agree with you, is only a small fraction of nintendo fans that are acting this way, and I really like the way you presented this and your reason to having a WII is the right one in my opinion. Also Im glad that you showed me that not all the Nintento fans in the forums are acting the same way. thanks It gives me hope that this nonsense will stop someday. I apologize to YOU for what I said because you are not like that but honestly Im tired of every topic being about the WII third party situation and how the WII deserves every game known to man, when so many good things are happening all around.

Gamers love your console and buy you console if you like what it has and forget about everything else, this is a hobby and we are supposed to enjoy it

Yeah, I'm getting tired of that as well. I don't like when some 3rd parties whine about Wii gamers not buying their games, but it has gotten out of hands lately, and comments like "Crapcom" is just not funny anymore.

There are 3rd parties who really tries, and delivers good Wii games. Most of them are smaller studios but how does that matter as long as Wii get more well made games? Sometimes I think the hate against 3rd parties not delivering on the Wii, blinds some Wii gamers. They are so angry about what they don't get, that they no longer sees what they already have.



Xen on 17 January 2010
Ari_Gold said:
you barely noticed their bitterness? lol. Did you not see them looking forward to the conduit, and shitting all over modern warfare 2, or any other shooter on the HD consoles, or downplaying AAA games like RE 5, while hyping average to best exclusive niche games like madworld, da blob, silent hill, final fantasy crystal bearers, cold mountain, house of the dead, no more heroes. Don't forget their elitist attitude that playing games with a "pad" is last gen and they couldn't go back...... Its real funny actually. I'm playing games while they brag about sales.

They're hungry for third party support, they are just too bitter to admit it.

The sad truth.

That bitterness does come from lackluster third party support and bad userbase treatment.



Demotruk on 17 January 2010
Carl2291 said:

To be honest, there aren't really much features missing from the Wii version... There is of course the visuals, and a better online experience, but i wouldn't say they are features.

Games like that DO get hyped, it's just the small games that get hyped on PS3 are usually some exclusive first party game or known developer. 3D Dot Game Heroes, for example.

I understand the Wii is missing a whole bunch of core games like The Conduit, but what i actually started arguing about... Was why i think the Wii wasn't getting these games.

No local multiplayer (a bigger deal than people here tend to accept), missing online modes and other features of the online games were missing.

3D dot game heroes, just like The Conduit, I see... You're not even trying to see the other perspective here.

 

Yeah, and you brought up "The Conduit" to say that it was fair to compare CoD Wii to the HD games. Just because starved Wii gamers hyped it up doesn't mean that The Conduit was any less of a small budget game by relative newbie developers. A great effort and I'm glad of their enthusiasm, don't get me wrong, but using it as a standard just shows the difference in what is expected from third party Wii games compared to PS360 games.

And if there is no standard that compares, your whole argument falls apart. How would developers know that big effort, mainstream core games comparable to PS360 games don't sell, if they don't exist in the first place?

Except Nintendo of course, but their games never count.



A game I'm developing with some friends:

www.xnagg.com/zombieasteroids/publish.htm

It is largely a technical exercise but feedback is appreciated.

Around the Network
Arius Dion on 17 January 2010
Demotruk said:
Carl2291 said:

To be honest, there aren't really much features missing from the Wii version... There is of course the visuals, and a better online experience, but i wouldn't say they are features.

Games like that DO get hyped, it's just the small games that get hyped on PS3 are usually some exclusive first party game or known developer. 3D Dot Game Heroes, for example.

I understand the Wii is missing a whole bunch of core games like The Conduit, but what i actually started arguing about... Was why i think the Wii wasn't getting these games.

No local multiplayer (a bigger deal than people here tend to accept), missing online modes and other features of the online games were missing.

3D dot game heroes, just like The Conduit, I see... You're not even trying to see the other perspective here.

 

Yeah, and you brought up "The Conduit" to say that it was fair to compare CoD Wii to the HD games. Just because starved Wii gamers hyped it up doesn't mean that The Conduit was any less of a small budget game by relative newbie developers. A great effort and I'm glad of their enthusiasm, don't get me wrong, but using it as a standard just shows the difference in what is expected from third party Wii games compared to PS360 games.

And if there is no standard that compares, your whole argument falls apart. How would developers know that big effort, mainstream core games comparable to PS360 games don't sell, if they don't exist in the first place?

Except Nintendo of course, but their games never count.


Exactly.



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

_honeybadger_ on 17 January 2010
forest-spirit said:
_honeybadger_ said:
forest-spirit said:
This thread irritates me in the way "PS3 fanboys are the worst"-topics do.
A minority of the fanbase are very vocal and thus some people see the whole fanbase as idiots.


You know what, I'm sick and tired of this, I am just a gamer who happens to prefer Wii but I'm not some fanatic who praise Nintendo everytime they open their mouth. I don't lick Reggie's toes.

Some Nintendo fans really are annoying in how they drop all logic and sense in defending their God and take every bit of criticism against Nintendo as a terrorist attack. I hate it, not only is it annoying to see these people use the company I love just to defend their own egos, but it makes some people think all Nintendo fans behave like that, and we get "Nintendo fans are ignorant", "Nintendo fans are blind", etc.
(This can be applied to the fanbase of Microsoft and Sony as well.)

Something else I'm tired of hearing is that I'm ignorant or an idiot for being satisfied with the library my console of choice have. I'm perfectly fine with the games I can get for the Wii, and I'll probably not have enough time to play through all the games I want before this gen is over. That's just me, it's because of my taste in gaming.
Everyone will not be satisfied in owning only Wii though, I'm fully aware of that, I wouldn't be satisfied in owning only a 360 or a PS3 because I want to play Metroid and Zelda, but again, it's because of my taste and I won't hate on other people for not sharing my opinion. That would just make me look like an idiot and show how limited I am.

End of meltdown. Now I'm gonna have some bitter cake.

Clap, Clap, Clap.

 

I agree with you, is only a small fraction of nintendo fans that are acting this way, and I really like the way you presented this and your reason to having a WII is the right one in my opinion. Also Im glad that you showed me that not all the Nintento fans in the forums are acting the same way. thanks It gives me hope that this nonsense will stop someday. I apologize to YOU for what I said because you are not like that but honestly Im tired of every topic being about the WII third party situation and how the WII deserves every game known to man, when so many good things are happening all around.

Gamers love your console and buy you console if you like what it has and forget about everything else, this is a hobby and we are supposed to enjoy it

Yeah, I'm getting tired of that as well. I don't like when some 3rd parties whine about Wii gamers not buying their games, but it has gotten out of hands lately, and comments like "Crapcom" is just not funny anymore.

There are 3rd parties who really tries, and delivers good Wii games. Most of them are smaller studios but how does that matter as long as Wii get more well made games? Sometimes I think the hate against 3rd parties not delivering on the Wii, blinds some Wii gamers. They are so angry about what they don't get, that they no longer sees what they already have.

Exactly, they are so consumed looking at what the other consoles/pc are getting from the big publishers that they are neglecting the very good games that are released on the WII, targeting the core gamers. If they were to focus about the games that the WII is getting instead they would see that there are a group of developers that really try to bring good quality games to the platform and are being neglected by the audience for some imaginary game, is just pathetic. WII music sells millions and Muramasa/ a boy and his blob/ SH.SM  and great games on WIWare combined dont sell even a fraction of that, when at a glance you can see how much effort was made on those games by the developers to an audience that claims that they also like traditional games but ignore it.

 

WII owners your console has great games, play them and enjoy the games that you want and forget about the rest.



--OkeyDokey-- on 17 January 2010

So when do we stop blaming third parties and start blaming Nintendo for making a console that no one wants to develop for?



Barozi on 17 January 2010
killeryoshis said:
theRepublic said:
Carl2291 said:
theRepublic said:
Carl2291 said:

Would all depend on how you defne "big". But anyway...

That's the whole point of what im saying. Why would the 3rd parties bother to make big huge blockbuster games for Wii, when party games are outselling certain efforts by 2:1 (in the lowest case) and making millions upon millions... When those said blockbusters are selling so well on PS360?

I'll give you an example, using a big hit game you gave me.
Call of Duty: World at War (launched day and date with PS360 versions) - 1.40M (PS3 - 3.81 360 - 6.15)
Carnival Games, Game Party, Deca Sports - 3.54M, 2.17M, 2.14M

Now, what impression do you think that has on developers?

Do you notice how all those minigame collections you used were all released early in the Wii's life and their sequels have performed poorly?  It is clear that consumers do not want any more of those.

This CoD: World at War thing has been done to death, but sure, let's go over it again.  CoD 3 on the Wii outsold the PS3 version.  The next year, the PS3 and 360 get the break-out hit CoD 4: Modern Warfare, while the Wii gets nothing.  Then, the following year, all the consoles get W@W.  The difference here is that W@W got to ride on the success of MW on the PS3 and 360, but not on the Wii.  Then of course there is the removed features on the Wii version of W@W that make it less desirable.

It is just more of what we have seen for the past three generations.  Third party publishers treat Nintendo consoles like a red-headed step-child, and expect the same results as they get on other consoles.  It is ridiculous.

I could name a few recent ones that are managing to sell pretty well. 

I can understand the lack of CoD4 hurting the WaW sales on Wii, but what was the reason for a lack of CoD4?

WHY do they treat Ninty like that?

The lack of CoD 4 on the Wii was because the engine wasn't ready in time.  It was ready for W@W, which is why the Wii got that game on time.  It was further optimized, and was used again in the recent port of MW.  For the other two consoles, I don't think that excuse would go over very well.

Why do they treat Nintendo like that?  I don't know.  You would have to ask them.

Don't go into a arguement not knowing the flaws of it. That's no excuse. Why did we get call of duty 3 huh?

Because Call of Duty 3 used the same engine as Call of Duty 2 Big Red One last generation.



Xen on 17 January 2010
--OkeyDokey-- said:
So when do we stop blaming third parties and start blaming Nintendo for making a console that no one wants to develop for?

Hardly the problem...

Blame two things. The extended userbase, and test games. The first is overwhelmingly huge and doesn't buy anything thats good, the second will not be bought by the core userbase - creating a vicious circle of good stuff not bought (in sufficent amounts) and test stuff not returning 'positive" results.