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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - How many Nintendo´s fan dislikes the Zelda franchise ?

 

How many Nintendo´s fan dislikes the Zelda franchise ?

Me, myself and I 38 19.90%
 
What the hell ?!?!? We all love it ! 153 80.10%
 
Total:191
Roar_Of_War on 17 January 2010
Maneco said:
Zelda is entertaining and a like it, but the path the series has taken in the second half of the decade (Twilight Princess is just FAIL, and Phantom Hourglass had really to be longer. I'll buy Spirit Tracks next month, so I can't talk about it yet) makes me think why I should be a religious fan of the series. My first Zelda was Wind Waker, and is considered the best for me today (Ocarina of Time seems so primitive that I actually disliked the game overall, while Majora's Mask was an innovative masterpiece), as no game seemed to follow its basis, I'm not sure what to expect from the next Zelda.

Besides, something that has made me quite disappointed with the franchise is how the use of the Wii Remote on Twilight Princess and in the artwork of the next one screwed with my vision of the series. I am proud to be left-handed, just as Link in almost every game (even though he was originally right-handed), but seeing that, to just "fit" the game better, the development team turned him right-handed. This makes me furious and seems that they don't care a thing about consistency in the franchise.

Overall, I see the Zelda franchise as a good one, but not excellent. It hasn't innovated for a long time and its success, as we can see here, is due only to a few faithful followers of the series, concentrated on a small group (take a look at the total sales today, they don't pass the 60 million, behind franchises like Madden NFL and TETRIS -_-), and hardly gets newcomers among the newest games. YET, it's a good franchise, but it's far from being an universally acclaimed one, I mean, recognized not only by Nintendo fans, but by Nintendo "haters" as well (for instance, God of War is also inserted in this category).


"Its success. as far as we can see here, is due only to a few faithful followers of the series" Wrong. Thats incredibly biased. You don't see anything. Who's to say the franchise has made a wrong turn anyway? You think just because they like the direction its turned, it has to be because its just Zelda, and they'd praise it even if it sucked? I don't f*cking think so. and it IS universally acclaimed, whether you agree with it or not. ONLY 59 million? Its beyond anything that isn't sports, mario, pokemon or final fantasy. Its the 10th best selling franchise of all time. 59 million isn't ONLY. You expect Zelda to be in the 100 millions when Metroid hasn't even reached 15 million yet? Its one of the best non-easily-accessible series of all time, sales-wise.

 

and don't even get me started on your left-handed argument. The only reason Link is right-handed is because they had to flip the entire game around due to some technicalities, not because they thought it'd fit better. Thats just some excuse they made to give a more accepted reasoning behind it. All of a sudden the franchise fails and is inconsistant because Link doesn't stay left handed? Wtf?

 

You can have your opinion, but don't speak for anyone besides yourself.



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Sorcery on 17 January 2010

 

Roar_Of_War said:

Sorcery said:

Roar_Of_War said:You despise Zelda? Thats a heavy word to use, especially if you used to love the series so much. What games have surpassed Zelda's exploration? What "bad gameplay mechanics" do wind waker and twilight princess hold compared to OoT? I doubt you can say anything that isn't either false, or preferenced. Wind Waker had innovation, just not too much gameplay-wise.

 

Also, all the big 3D Mario titles are very similar, why don't you complain about that? Because its Mario? Why should Zelda have to change so drastically if Mario doesn't have to? Because you can hardly compare Mario to anything, but Zelda has quite a bit of comparisons to other games. Zelda's a more competitive series than Mario in the fact that it could potentially be surpassed because it does what a lot of other games do out there, unlike Mario.

 

Still, its rather stupid to "despise" Zelda just because you may find something that, to you, is better than it. Out-performed perhaps (in your opinion), but despise? Did you want it to be better than all the rest that badly? Did it let you down? No wonder you don't like it anymore - you overloaded yourself. Over-obsession often leads to getting sick of that obsession one day, and being hostile towards it.

Like I said, just about every AAA game out there has surpassed Zelda's exploration and sense of discovery, but you really only need to look at one dev team to see just how far behind the Zelda team is. Team ICO blew by team Zelda last generation when it comes to exploration and sense of discovery.

 

Bad gameplay mechanics in TWW and TP? Huh... how about having to use the Wind Waker every minute in TWW to change the wind or control your partner? Good gameplay mechanic: Press A button and switch back and forth between controlling your partner. Bad gameplay mechanic: pull out the Wind Waker, play a song, watch a mini cutscene. Good gameplay mechanic: Sail in any direction regardless of the wind. Bad gameplay mechanic: pull out the Wind Waker, play a song, watch a mini cutscene.The Wind Waker itself was quite useless, unless you think it's super innovative to change the wind direction to use your Deku Leaf to hover over to another little island (why not just use a Cucco? That's all the Deku Leaf really is, a portable Cucco). More bad gameplay mechanics? I've seen many new players get frustrated with the horrible stealth sequence early in the game. Also, I'm sorry, but TWW's sailing grid with copy-pasted islands and towers compared to the open continental worlds of Skies of Arcadia? LOL.

For Twilight Princess, the entire Twilight realm was a horrible idea with poor implementation. Collecting light seeds was dull, no matter how you try to spin it I can't recall many fans saying it was a fun, worthwhile task. It broke the flow of the game, it wasn't fun, it didn't offer any new and exciting gameplay mechanics, it was a scripted mess. The Twilight realm limits what the player can do and where they can explore, it also lead to a wholly linear experience until you're a good 15-20 hours into the game.

 

With regards to Mario, the Mario games have an an astounding amount of variety within them, each game has been quite different from it's predecessor, while still retaining the core gameplay mechanics. The 2-d Mario games are nothing alike, and the 3-d games are quite different too. The different power ups, FLUDD, the usage of gravity in Galaxy, the Wii pointer, etc. Not to mention that the Mario team has greatly improved gameplay, and provided a large amount of variety of it too. Galaxy levels are completely different from Mario 64 levels.

 

I only despise the direction Zelda has gone in, which is no direction. Overloading myself? Nope, I still regularly play every game before the Gamecube generation, and I still love them, it's only the newer games that I don't touch (other than Minish Cap, I love that game, very original and unique). I don't expect Zelda to be the best at everything it does, that's like expecting GTA to be the best at everything, but I do expect it to be a bit of a "jack of all trades" type of game, which it most certainly isn't, not anymore.

 

 

 I have to agree with you about Twilight Princess (that was actually my mine gripe with it), but all the things you said against Wind Waker indeed sound preferenced. I hardly ever got annoyed having to play the wind waker (and I'm not the most patient person, either), and the idea of it was interesting enough, anyway. It wasn't useless, which is another great thing about Wind Waker - Almost none of the items ever became useless (like in Twilight Princess). As for the stealth, not everyone hates that, you know. You shouldn't call it a flaw, especially since its far from "horrible". As for the islands....okay? You sound like you're forcing it. The only part I really didn't like so much was the Tri-force chart bit towards the end, and even then at least you got in some good exploration. Its not nearly as bad as some people say.

 

The islands is forcing it?  The islands were the worst part about the game. Like I said, look at Skies of Arcadia, a game released 3 years prior. Skies of Arcadia has vastly different landscapes with all sorts of things to discover, vast differences in local architecture and customs, and you don't have to change wind direction every second. Wind Waker does a poor job of making the Koroks and Rito feel distinct and unique (customs? music? artwork? social interaction?), architectural design is bland everywhere outside of Windfall, the world is just a vacuous and therefore uninteresting world.

 

You want to know why I loved TWW the first ten or so hours? It was because of the exploration. Want to know why I hate it now? Because of how repetitive exploring is. Discovering new islands was an anticlimactic experience time and time again. There were lookout towers in over half the grid locations, islands were nothing but a puzzle with nothing to really explore (sometimes with nothing to do at all, other than pull up a treasure), submarines were all the same. It wouldn't have been so bad if all the islands didn't look nearly identical to one another, and if more islands were larger. There wasn't a single small continent throughout the entire game.

 

The most indicative example of how mundane TWW's overworld is, is when you enter the ghost ship, and it's just another fucking submarine on the inside.

 

 

Perhaps my biggest problem with Zelda these days, however, isn't so much the gameplay as it is the world design. The series feels more and more like a game, and less and less like an epic adventure with the unknown around every corner.



Currently playing: Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, NBA2k11, Metal Gear Solid, Picross 3d

Senlis on 17 January 2010
Cheebee said:
Senlis said:

It's funny how you should mention that you believe OOT was a great game, but TP seems like the same old thing.

Nintendo released a couple of great Zelda games between OOT and TP.  They included Manjoras Mask and Wind Waker.  They had innovative and original concepts that really evolved the series as a whole.  The problem?  Many people didn't like it.  They scoffed at not being able to play as adult link in Manjoras Mask.  They criticized it's lack of dungeons (only 4) and the time traveling system was completely not what they were used to.  They laughed at Wind Waker's graphical style, and how the game took place on an ocean.  Btw: some of the islands in WW were bigger than the areas of OOT.

Basically what I am saying is that Nintendo delivered two amazing games between OOT and TP.  The fans complained, saying that they wanted to play as adult Link in an experience similar to OOT.  The fans wanted it, and Nintendo delivered.  What you recieved was an amazing game, but one that didn't do much different than it's predecessor.  Then, people criticized it for not doing much different than it's predecessor.

To summarize, people complain when things change.

I totally agree with this. I actually said something similar in a different thread. People just love to complain. If TP is so terribly outdated and stale, why did it sell so much more than both MM and WW, two wholly fresh and innovative Zelda titles? Evidently it's not so bad as a LOT of people make it seem.

Also, I don't really get what they complain about concerning TP anyway, imo it is, on the whole, a much different game from OOT. It's much, much more elaborate and evolved than the foundation that OOT laid. If you compare the two, yes, there are of course similarities, durh, but TP feels like a much larger, more epic and more complete experience than OOT ever was. It does so much more so much better, people complaining and finding it far inferior to OOT are honestly just looking at the N64 game through rose-tinted glasses.

Of course, that's not to say I didn't love OOT. In fact, I love all Zelda games, and so far, I've found each and every installment to be fresh and exciting. Now if anyone wants to talk franchises gone stale, take a look at Pokémon, THERE's a franchise that's the textbook example of unoriginality. In fact, I could name a long, long list of franchises that fit that description, most of them popular 'core' HD games.

uh...let me get this straight:

I said that MM and WW were the innovative ones, while TP, while being a great game, was just an upgraded OOT.

You said you agreed with me that TP was an extremely innovative game.  What?

We said basically two different things (though we seem to agree that Zelda games are great).

Really, you agreed with me in your post though you may not realize it.  "If you compare the two, yes, there are of course similarities, durh, but TP feels like a much larger, more epic and more complete experience than OOT ever was."  In other words, OOT upgraded.  Not surprising, since it was made almost 2 generations later.




 

binary solo on 17 January 2010

I thought there was a simple 1:1 correlation. You can't be a true Ninty fan if you don't like Zelda. It's like saying you're a ninty fan and you hate Mario games. Just do not compute. Even non-fans of Ninty like Zelda.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

gamefreak4ever on 18 January 2010
binary solo said:
I thought there was a simple 1:1 correlation. You can't be a true Ninty fan if you don't like Zelda. It's like saying you're a ninty fan and you hate Mario games. Just do not compute. Even non-fans of Ninty like Zelda.

Not true....with GTA loved some and others better...actually San Andreas didn't fully do it for me...



http://www.vgchartz.com/sigs/output.php?userid=60726%5B/img%5D%5B/url%5D">

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Cheebee on 19 January 2010
Senlis said:
Cheebee said:
Senlis said:

It's funny how you should mention that you believe OOT was a great game, but TP seems like the same old thing.

Nintendo released a couple of great Zelda games between OOT and TP.  They included Manjoras Mask and Wind Waker.  They had innovative and original concepts that really evolved the series as a whole.  The problem?  Many people didn't like it.  They scoffed at not being able to play as adult link in Manjoras Mask.  They criticized it's lack of dungeons (only 4) and the time traveling system was completely not what they were used to.  They laughed at Wind Waker's graphical style, and how the game took place on an ocean.  Btw: some of the islands in WW were bigger than the areas of OOT.

Basically what I am saying is that Nintendo delivered two amazing games between OOT and TP.  The fans complained, saying that they wanted to play as adult Link in an experience similar to OOT.  The fans wanted it, and Nintendo delivered.  What you recieved was an amazing game, but one that didn't do much different than it's predecessor.  Then, people criticized it for not doing much different than it's predecessor.

To summarize, people complain when things change.

I totally agree with this. I actually said something similar in a different thread. People just love to complain. If TP is so terribly outdated and stale, why did it sell so much more than both MM and WW, two wholly fresh and innovative Zelda titles? Evidently it's not so bad as a LOT of people make it seem.

Also, I don't really get what they complain about concerning TP anyway, imo it is, on the whole, a much different game from OOT. It's much, much more elaborate and evolved than the foundation that OOT laid. If you compare the two, yes, there are of course similarities, durh, but TP feels like a much larger, more epic and more complete experience than OOT ever was. It does so much more so much better, people complaining and finding it far inferior to OOT are honestly just looking at the N64 game through rose-tinted glasses.

Of course, that's not to say I didn't love OOT. In fact, I love all Zelda games, and so far, I've found each and every installment to be fresh and exciting. Now if anyone wants to talk franchises gone stale, take a look at Pokémon, THERE's a franchise that's the textbook example of unoriginality. In fact, I could name a long, long list of franchises that fit that description, most of them popular 'core' HD games.

uh...let me get this straight:

I said that MM and WW were the innovative ones, while TP, while being a great game, was just an upgraded OOT.

You said you agreed with me that TP was an extremely innovative game.  What?

We said basically two different things (though we seem to agree that Zelda games are great).

Really, you agreed with me in your post though you may not realize it.  "If you compare the two, yes, there are of course similarities, durh, but TP feels like a much larger, more epic and more complete experience than OOT ever was."  In other words, OOT upgraded.  Not surprising, since it was made almost 2 generations later.

Erm, I don't think you understood what I said. Seriously, whut? I never said TP was an extremely innovative game. Where do you see that? Where? I never said that. Anywhere.

I said TP is not such a bad game as many make it out to be, and that, while similar to OOT, it is infact quite different. And yes, that's simply because it released 2 gens later, like you said. I said TP is more complex, and does many things better than OOT did, but I didn't say it was extremely innovative. Actually, I never said anywhere it was innovative at all. So, are you reading the right post?

So, to summarize: OOT was great, TP is an evolution of OOT and great as well. MM & WW were both innovative, moreso than TP. Yet TP is still a great game, and not as bad as many people say it is. There.



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