It's my opinion that Bioshock is worse than System Shock 2, but it's not my opinion that reviewers gave Bioshock credit for the things developed in System Shock 2 and it' s not my opinion that Bioshock is almost a direct copy with a different plot. I can run through all that stuff if you want... Someone mentioned Doki Doki Panic and Super Mario Bros. 2 (US) as an example. That's actually a great example.

1.

"And different gameplay does, but with the exact same story, objectives, and items to collect?"

Every Mario game ever has had the following story:  "Princess kidnapped.  Go save her."  Obviously it follows that Super Mario Galaxy is a completely identical game to the original Super Mario Brothers. 

That is your argument.  Your argument is insane. 

2.

"No im fine with argueing a pointless battle, be my guest and continue, opinions are not facts, understand the difference. You can argue facts, you cant opinions."

What you appear to fail to grasp is that we can argue that the facts show that your opinions are wrong. 

3.

"Yes your opinion, and i agree, its not a new game though, least not in my opinion."

Case in point. 

 No if you talk bullshit you will be shot down.

If you post something true (and bad) about Nintendo you will find many members of the site agree with you, whether it is their currently ludicrous third party support or the fact that their graphics really arent up to par with the other two consoles. (In its proper place of course, don't make a topic with something like 'Wii graphics suck' to try and prove your point)

However if you post that SMG is practically the same as SM64 you can expect to be shot down because it is quite simply stupid to assert that, in the gaming world its pretty much asserting that the earth is practically the same as jupiter, afterall they are both spherical and planets right? 

 First of all, story in Mario is changed, yes the main objective is the same (save Peach) but the reason Bowser got her are different, there are new characters (Rosalina and the Lumas) New items to collect (star bits) new gameplay mechanics (gravity and spherical levels) and a co-op mode. So do all of these sound like little perks to you? What more could they change? It's a sequel of a game never known for it's story but always honored for it's gameplay. So Galaxy does EXACTLY that, leaves the story with minor changes and focuses on gameplay (and even the reviews state that the story is not good but you don't play Mario games for their story).

I mean for God's sake admit that you were wrong there's no shame about it. 

And usually bullshit is anything thats not agreeing with the Nintendo fans around here? Naa im not going to start that, Bullshit is opinion

IM leaving this conversation, we again are going into opinion, absolutley NO SIDE CAN WIN

Heres an example
Your favorite game could be the worst rated game ever, does that mean its a terrible game. To you no, to others possibly yes.
Society has it if a majority, and a huge majority say its one thing, they say its fact.

Again im leaving this, there will be no winner, i will just argue that its opinion, and i can really lose, and you guys cant either, its your opinions.

Im leaving this, if you want to say you guys won go right ahead if it makes you feel better deep down

Technically im still not wrong, but if you makes all you happy ill admit it

If you all admit you were wrong about bioshock Its not system shock 2 remake neither is SMG, thats it its over, they are both big different games.

Ill admit i was wrong, but then if thats the case, naz must admit hes wrong about bioshock and call of duty. Same with dweti saying Bioshock is pretty much System shock 2.

Its all opinions, and im afraid i sent us down a dark path, and again im leaving it so leave this topic alone

You all got it, good then leave it alone

SMG is definitly worthy isnt it

Hm i finished it and yeah it's heeeell worthy.

OK, I exaggerated in my last post, but this, as I understand it, is literally what you've been arguing, LtoK:

1. Bioshock is very different from System Shock 2.
1a. It is very different, even if the gameplay is identical (or identical except for the dumbed-down parts), because it has a different story.

2. Super Mario Galaxy is not very different from Super Mario 64.
2a. It is not very different because the story is the same.
2b. The new gravity-based gameplay mechanics are a minor gameplay tweak -- an improvement but not an innovative development.
2c. Also, it's not different because you still collect coins and stars and stuff.

3. It's my opinion, so you can't prove it wrong.
3a. Zomg.

My responses:

1. No it isn't.
1a. I defer to naznatips on this, and he has shown that he is right, and many, many sources readily available on the Net back him up.

2. Yes it is.
2a. Don't be silly.
2b. The gravity mechanic is HUGE, and your dismissal of it indicates to me that you don't really grasp the doors it opens in terms of new gameplay possibilities. I don't blame you too much -- I think we all will learn quite a bit only after experiencing this game -- but your refusal to see even the glimmering potential is quite frustrating.
2c. Are you serious?  That's like saying a FPS is unoriginal because you shoot people. 

3. Don't be silly. If you want to stick your fingers in your ears and yell "la la la I'm not listening", you have that right, but don't pretend you're participating in a debate that way.

Around 13-14 hours.

Edit: That's for 60 stars, and trust me the game gets really harder after that... i'm stuck in the same level for a couple of hours now.