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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why do most third party publishers ignore the Wii completely ?

Squilliam on 05 January 2010
Veder Juda said:
Squilliam said:
I don't buy the idea of audience fragmentation being a problem. The whole idea of a capitalistic profit orientated business is to seek profit where-ever they can. If they can find an untapped market and sell even more copies across a wider base they will certainly do that. A port isn't a problem really if theres an audience they are targetting.

I think the real problem isn't the development issues across the different platforms its a marketing issue. Both HD consoles can use the same advertisement but you're really pushing far into false advertisement territory if you include the Wii on one which supposedly includes gameplay. In addition to this I would suggest that they feel a lot of Wii games aren't as good to advertise on a visual medium in that they feel they may turn people off due to 'inferior visuals'.

The problem with splitting the audience is more of limited resources; it's not good enough to just chase profit, but chasing the biggest profit in the most efficient way possible.  Creating two versions of any game that has a split audience means more money and time spent making those games, and less resources availalb eot make other games.  It would be better if the company could keep the whole audience on one platform, or at least on fewer platforms, that are easy to port between each other; that frees up the resources needed to make more games that can make more profit.

Now in Capcom's case, if there was a sizable audience for a Wii version of Street Fighter IV, and the resources to develop it would have come at the expense of something like Bionic Commando, then that's a no brainer; but they thought that any fighter fan would have just bought an HD console to get SFIV, and Bionic Commando was going to be a hit.

I've seen quite a few advertisments for games on HD consoles and the Wii that show the HD version, and simply state at the end that there is a Wii version.

Making a Wii version of a game is far far easier than making an Xbox 360 and PS3 version from a Wii version of a game. Its easier in this business to destroy than create and all they need is a pair of interns to do most of the work on the programming side. There are always times when the design team are idle waiting for work to be done on the HD versions, so just as idle stream processors are put to work when time is available, so too are idle design team hands. The expense is actually miniscule so its not a problem and a lot of game designs actually favour this approach. Its possible to make a Wii version of most HD games without sacraficing the gameplay mechanics and to do so cheaply. 

Simply stating theres a Wii version at the end isn't enough. Imagine a car advertisement from Mazda showing off their Mazda 2,3, 6 but at the end it simply states that the MX5 and CX7 exist as well. The effectiveness of the advertisement isn't particularly good for products not shown, you can't even expect people who own a Wii to pay attention to that kind of advertisement as its generally not applicable to them nor can you expect people to read an advertisement when all they are interested in is the show.



Tease.

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theRepublic on 05 January 2010
Xen said:
theRepublic said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
"which is sad, because we havent seen a true blockbuster third party game on the Wii."

Monster Hunter 3. The top selling third party game in Japanese home systems this generation.

I've noticed several people forgetting about that game.  It probably has something to do with the fact that it isn't out in all regions yet.

I've noticed both of you forgetting about FF XIII.

Really, FF XIII is on the Wii now?  I didn't know.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

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Squilliam on 05 January 2010
Procrastinato said:

It's easy to answer the OP question:

(A) Split the Wii's attach ratio into two parts -- 1st party and 3rd party attach.
(B) Consider that 3rd party profit on Wii titles is somewhat less than it is on HD titles, when considering raw numbers sold.
(C) Note that Nintendo is always pleased to announce how the Wii has the "most" titles released each year, and then consider that there are negative consequences to that for the 3rd parties, especially given what you've figured out from (A) above, the lower profit margins per unit from (B), and the greater shelf space competition from (C). This raw statistic is great for Nintendo, however, because it means more licensing fees.

A) Theres nothing wrong with their 1st/3rd party ratio.

B) It wasn't a problem last generation, considering raw units sold.

C + D) A title which stands out and actually gets 'market development' funds will find a place on the shelves. Infact it will push other titles aside. If a game doesn't have any funding on marketing its a crapshoot as to whether or not the retailers believe its going to sell so unit numbers are lower. If a game gets multiple shelf spaces at retail then it sends a message to the games buyer that it might be a title to at least consider. To be successful you also have to look successful in the business, and simply having a lot of boxes on the shelf can do that. Nintendo gets that treatment automatically because they have a good reputation, the third parties need to establish that same reputation. They can only pull the same tricks for so long before the public and the retailers wise up. 

Reputation is one of the things in the business that the publishers are too quick to throw away. Theres no other publisher in the industry that gives an assurance that if you buy one of their products you're probably going to like it to some degree. The same goes for other entertainment industries like Movies where both actors and studios are all keenly aware that releasing a poor product will cost them more than sales at the box office. The greater the potential investment of time/money the more having a great reputation is beneficial.



Tease.

Pristine20 on 05 January 2010
Gamerace said:
dampowell said:
at the end of the day. Nintendo will bleed black and the small studios that continue to support the HD systems will bleed red.

Never mind the small studios (their going bankrupt on HD) the big studios are bleeding red on HD.    Only Ubisoft (home of the casualz) and Activision (GH/WoW) are in the black and they are relying heavily on the expanded market to do so.    I think Sega broke even having lost tons on their HD efforts but done well on Wii/DS.  Capcom has a good year too.

At the end of the day 3rd parties will either finally learn the lesson Nintendo is teaching or die in combat for the HD buck.  

Gaming is a business. I'm pretty sure the 3rd parties would be all over the wii if they thought it'll make them the most money but their actions have shown that they don't think so. I'm pretty sure we don't have access to the business dealings that fuel the decisions of these companies so it's bestnot to jump into conclusions. If I remember correctly, there was also a thread on this site a few weeks ago or so about sega lamenting their own losses even after releasing "core" wii games.

Perhaps you could explain the lesson ninty is teaching that 3rd parties need to follow? Is it that everyoe should develop their very own marios because you should know that that's not possible. I may be missing your point there. If you could enlighten me I'd appreciate it.



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

Pristine20 on 05 January 2010
LordTheNightKnight said:
You'd better retract that fanboy statement. It's now a bannable offence. I'm not joking. Look in the rules.

And if MRFENIX doesn't get the actual reason the Wii deserves respect and recognition (which is not the same as all praise and not criticism), he's part of the problem.

There was nothing offensive about my statement IMO. Feel free to report it if you feel otherwise.



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

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dsps3wii on 05 January 2010

This question should be proposed to the developers and i like to see what they say. I personally think the developers think nintendo is more of a risk, because of the motion controls, and they don't know who the nintendo audience is. Many people think like the developers that nintendo audience is kiddy or what have you. But they should beaware that a lot of core gamers have multiple systems and they would gladly buy a wii game if it is good and not some port or rail shooter. They could get the better version on the other platform. It seems to me that the developers don't want to spend to much time on motion controls, because with ps3 and xbox360 controls are the same and been the same for a while. The wii u have to do so much more with the controls and to make the controls right might take a long time to master, that could be one reason why.

If developres put core games out on wii system like bioshock, assassins creed, left for dead, re5, and codmw2 and make the wii controls work well i think the games will sell well. Their is only one way to find out and that if developers have the cojones to do it.



Pristine20 on 05 January 2010
dsps3wii said:
This question should be proposed to the developers and i like to see what they say. I personally think the developers think nintendo is more of a risk because of the motion controls and they don't know who the nintendo audience is. Many people think like the developers that nintendo audience or kiddy or what have you. But they should be aware that a lot of core gamers have wii and multiple systems and they would gladly buy a wii game if it is good and not some port or rail shooter when they could get the better version on the other platform. It seems to me that the developers don't want to spend to much time motion controls, because with ps3 and xbox360 controls are the same and been the same for a while. the wii u have to do so much more with the control and to make the controls right might take a long time to master that could be one reason why.

If developres put core games out on wii system like bioshock, assassins creed, left for dead, re5, and codmw2 and make the wii controls work well i think the games will sell well. Their is only one way to find out and that if developers have the cojones to do it.

I think this has been done in the past and didn't end well. I remember I guy from capcom getting picked apart over his statements on an issue revolving around this. For this reason, I don't think any dev would be willing to answer this question. The only way to know is perhaps by becoming one of these devs yourself.



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

tyig on 05 January 2010
Squilliam said:
Veder Juda said:
Squilliam said:
I don't buy the idea of audience fragmentation being a problem. The whole idea of a capitalistic profit orientated business is to seek profit where-ever they can. If they can find an untapped market and sell even more copies across a wider base they will certainly do that. A port isn't a problem really if theres an audience they are targetting.

I think the real problem isn't the development issues across the different platforms its a marketing issue. Both HD consoles can use the same advertisement but you're really pushing far into false advertisement territory if you include the Wii on one which supposedly includes gameplay. In addition to this I would suggest that they feel a lot of Wii games aren't as good to advertise on a visual medium in that they feel they may turn people off due to 'inferior visuals'.

The problem with splitting the audience is more of limited resources; it's not good enough to just chase profit, but chasing the biggest profit in the most efficient way possible.  Creating two versions of any game that has a split audience means more money and time spent making those games, and less resources availalb eot make other games.  It would be better if the company could keep the whole audience on one platform, or at least on fewer platforms, that are easy to port between each other; that frees up the resources needed to make more games that can make more profit.

Now in Capcom's case, if there was a sizable audience for a Wii version of Street Fighter IV, and the resources to develop it would have come at the expense of something like Bionic Commando, then that's a no brainer; but they thought that any fighter fan would have just bought an HD console to get SFIV, and Bionic Commando was going to be a hit.

I've seen quite a few advertisments for games on HD consoles and the Wii that show the HD version, and simply state at the end that there is a Wii version.

Making a Wii version of a game is far far easier than making an Xbox 360 and PS3 version from a Wii version of a game. Its easier in this business to destroy than create and all they need is a pair of interns to do most of the work on the programming side. There are always times when the design team are idle waiting for work to be done on the HD versions, so just as idle stream processors are put to work when time is available, so too are idle design team hands. The expense is actually miniscule so its not a problem and a lot of game designs actually favour this approach. Its possible to make a Wii version of most HD games without sacraficing the gameplay mechanics and to do so cheaply. 

Simply stating theres a Wii version at the end isn't enough. Imagine a car advertisement from Mazda showing off their Mazda 2,3, 6 but at the end it simply states that the MX5 and CX7 exist as well. The effectiveness of the advertisement isn't particularly good for products not shown, you can't even expect people who own a Wii to pay attention to that kind of advertisement as its generally not applicable to them nor can you expect people to read an advertisement when all they are interested in is the show.

No it's not, reduce 512 ram usage to 88 is not easy at all.



But war... war never changes

Gintoki on 05 January 2010
KylieDog said:
Gintoki said:
KylieDog said:
Gintoki said:

I said stop judging people without evidence.You don't know me, you don't know my friends and you keep acting this way... you really are boring...

And Fighting games can be awesome on Wii.However I don't want a port of Street Fighter IV.Street Fighter II worth more...I hate Ryu's face in this game.As if you use all the buttons in a game.Non sense.

 

 

My evidence is your own admitting your don't even use all the buttons.   If you don't then you're not doing even basic counters and such, so you really aren't ina  position to say what is good for the game.

Just one thing: are you idiot?You are JUST BORING.Since when sayings are evidence?That's just statement.

You don't even read(or give a respense to) a reply of someone else that concerns us. I am not saying they are bad,they are useless to me.And I think you understood nothing of my sayings: I told I played Street Fighter since a while.If by the game you're talking about SF IV, who mentionned that game?How is our discution linked to the subject?We're losing it.

STOP YOUR PREJUDICE!Didn't you learn this?

 

 

This will be my last response to you.  You admitted you do not understand or use half of the games abilities, then when I say that is why you do not see why the game wouldn't cope well on Wii your answer is...

 

...I am boring?   And that the SF IV on Wii discussion that you even were part of suddenly isn't to do with with SF IV suddenly?  That is your defence?

 

 

.....no words for it.  Really.  None.

Blah blah blah.What a child you looks like.I don't want this on wii you don't read, and I said this genre could be great on wii;then you really changed the subject with games that are not on it.
abitilities isn't equal to buttons...you don't need all the buttons of a Genesis/Megadrive to play sonic or SF...

counter can be done without this low attacks.And if I don't want it,that's because it changes so much

You are boring to answer as if you know me.You really don't get it right with me.



Squilliam on 05 January 2010
tyig said:
Squilliam said:

Making a Wii version of a game is far far easier than making an Xbox 360 and PS3 version from a Wii version of a game. Its easier in this business to destroy than create and all they need is a pair of interns to do most of the work on the programming side. There are always times when the design team are idle waiting for work to be done on the HD versions, so just as idle stream processors are put to work when time is available, so too are idle design team hands. The expense is actually miniscule so its not a problem and a lot of game designs actually favour this approach. Its possible to make a Wii version of most HD games without sacraficing the gameplay mechanics and to do so cheaply. 

Simply stating theres a Wii version at the end isn't enough. Imagine a car advertisement from Mazda showing off their Mazda 2,3, 6 but at the end it simply states that the MX5 and CX7 exist as well. The effectiveness of the advertisement isn't particularly good for products not shown, you can't even expect people who own a Wii to pay attention to that kind of advertisement as its generally not applicable to them nor can you expect people to read an advertisement when all they are interested in is the show.

No it's not, reduce 512 ram usage to 88 is not easy at all.

When you're ripping stuff out like textures etc to make it fit its definately doable.

ED = Wii resolution = 1/3rd total resolution of the HD consoles for a start. Look at MWR they took the game back to some very low grade textures to make it all fit.

 



Tease.