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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why do most third party publishers ignore the Wii completely ?

theRepublic on 04 January 2010
cAPSLOCK said:
HappySqurriel said:
tyig said:
Wii is lower is specs than xbox1, has no audience for the great games and technology does not go backwards.

The problem I have with most arguments people have against the games not being "Successful" on the Wii is that if you look at the sales more than 50% of FPS games on the XBox 360 probably lost the publisher significant amounts of money; and they could have produced multiple Wii games of similar quality that each would have seen similar sales and made a healthy profit rather than producing these forgotten FPS games. My favourite example of this at the moment is F.E.A.R 2 which I bought for $10 in a bargain bin and had higher production values, was of higher quality than any third party effort on the Wii to date, and it received more marketing than most Wii games; and it didn’t even sell 500,000 copies on the XBox 360 even though “everyone” wants FPS games on the XBox 360.

Most publishers seem to be chasing the success of other companies and bleeding money from it, rather than taking the risk and producing something that stands out on a platform.

50% a pretty startling figure if it's correct. How many of these HD only publishers are having financial troubles? Like is there any site that has info on how many of these HD only developers are drowning in red ink?

It probably explains why there's so much downloadable content for every game--anything to help soften the blow.

I imagine a lot of these companies are going to go tits before the transition to motion control has completed, sort of like how lots of companies died in the transition from 2d to 3d.

It's not that shocking.  Apparently, only 20% of all games make a significant profit.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2008/11/25/only-20-percent-of-games-make-a-profit/1



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HappySqurriel on 04 January 2010
PhalanxCO said:
demonfox13 said:
Oh yea here you go, Wii from a technical standpoint is inferior to the original Xbox
http://wii.ign.com/articles/699/699118p1.html. Ati Hollywood custom video card is roughly equivalent to an Ati R600 and just like it, it is capable of HDR+AA http://www.gpgpu.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=22227, whereas the 360 card is closer to a x1900xt while the PS3's card is a beefed up 7800gtx that can perform closer to an 8800 but not quite.

Given your signature, I find your posts incredibly ironic.  Oh well, you're banned anyway.

I had access to the Developer docs for the Gamecube last gen and I know exactly how the GPU unit worked.  The Xbox's T&L engine was a little more powerful than the GC's, but when it came to texturing, fill rate and other effects, the GC could eat the Xbox for breakfast, not to mention that Xbox's architecture was extremely inefficient.  If you had any idea what you were talking about and at least a modicum of desire to do research, you would realize this.

That's just the Gamecube.  The Wii is several orders of magnitude more powerful than the GC (at least twice, plus the infinite power of duct tape).  The biggest limitation the GC had was that you had to use the existing shader libraries to acheive various effects.  However, this appears to have been changed in the Wii's GPU because High Voltage mentions several times that they wrote their own shader libraries.

The Wii is far more powerful than most people realize because it has a unique architecture that very few people have ever taken the time to figure out.

Well, I don’t think Nintendo really changed the shading pipeline or opened things up at all as much as High Voltage probably put in effort to understand the TEV unit. The TEV unit isn’t much different from a texture combiner, which was a common approach to "shaders" in graphics cards like the Geforce 2 (and older). Texture combiners were actually much more efficient and powerful than the programmable shaders that came after them, but the problem was Pixel Combiners were very hardware specific and you had to handle them differently between manufacturers; and often you had to handle them differently when a manufacturer released a new GPU. This meant that (outside of people developing demos for these cards) almost no developers ever bothered to learn how to use texture combiners, and trying to get a developer who is used to programmable pixel shaders to try a pixel combiner is nearly impossible.

 



masschamber on 04 January 2010
KylieDog said:
Gintoki said:
KylieDog said:
Gintoki said:
KylieDog said:
Gintoki said:

Since when you're forced to play with wiimote and nunchuk?I use my GC or Classic Controllers to play SSBB,Tatsunoko...

That's great period.

So the problem is not that controls are bad but that most third parties don't know what to do first when they think about how could be their games on Wii.

 

SSBB and TvC were both made for Wii and thus limited in control scheme to what the Wii has.

 

Street Fighter IV as one example would never work since you need 3 punch buttons, 3 kick buttons and the ability to hit 3 different sets of Punch/kick at once, the ability to hit 2 punches or kicks at once and the ability to hit all 3 punches or all 3 kicks at once.  The Wiimote/chuck just do not have enough buttons easily available and expecting people to go buy a dedicated controller just to play the game probably destroys any good sales estimates.

 

Fighting games aren't the only genre with such problems also.  Even if there are enough buttons also it is about ease of use and many fall short in that area.

I don't feel this way:I played Street Fighter IV and I don't use all the buttons...mainly the middle and heavy kick/punch...SSBB sold well and Tatsunoko may sell in a descent way.Wii also has arcade controllers(if I remember there will be bundle with Tatsunoko in Europe)

Then I said  I own a GC so I did not need to buy more controllers.

 

Just because you are a scrub at the game (and if you only use middle and heavy attacks then you are) doesn't mean the game would not horribly suffer by being on the Wii.

 

'Scrub' is not an insult incase you misunderstand, it just means you are a inexperienced player or have the equivalent skills of one.

I'm not.Even on Street Fighter II on GBA or SNES, you don't need to use all the buttons.Funny to hear I have lack in experience when I always beat my friends who own the game.I'm not a scrub watch your words before pointing at me and check the few informations you can find about me here. the others attacks aren't needed when you use to play at every Street Fighter this way and win.There are useless possibities in a game.I don't need these buttons in Street Fighter because I found them useless years ago.

I'm far from a scrub.

 

Winning scrub vs scrub fights is not evidence of anything.  You've obviously never played a good player making such statements and you clearly fail to understand why such things not being possible in a Wii version would completely ruin the game, making a Wii port worthless.

well considering the xbox 360 and ps3 both have bad controllers for fighters as well isn't this sort of a moot point, people either buy arcade sticks or learn to play around the missing attacks, personally I only use the medium attacks if I want the mid speed special, the medium attack hits where I want it to, or it is part of a combo, (then again I always played King of Fighters (not XII) so playing with 4 buttons out of habbit, cd strikes don't do much in street fighter)



I HAVE A DOUBLE DRAGON CAB IN MY KITCHEN!!!!!!

NOW A PUNISHER CAB!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cAPSLOCK on 04 January 2010
drudaddy said:
IMO games like

Batman Arkham Asylum

Borderlands

Modern Warfare 2

Assassin's Creed

Will never sell well on the wii because of the hardware limitations. who really wants to play a downgraded version when you can get a more high quality version. I know people say graphics don't matter well consumers have spoken and obvious they do.

As far as goin the realistic route I agree, but there are lots of possibilities with artistic direction. Crackdown is a good example of a game that doesn't go all realistic graphics, opting instead of cel-shaded graphics and the rewards were insane draw distances. Windwaker is another good example. 

Honestly when I saw the Wii at E3 I figured a lot of people would jump on the system and bypass the graphical realism problem all together.

That's what fascinated me, all of the possibilities. A system like the Wii practically forces you to to develop an art style. Look at Nintendo's games, all stylized. That's what I expected out of 3rd parties, a bucketload of style. And no, not all "stylized" things have to be cartoony.

I would love to play a game in Zdzislaw Beksinski's world.

So yeah, to me this generation has been a lost opportunity. So much scratching and fighting for realistic graphics, I can't wait til photorealism is beyond easy to do, maybe we'll have some worlds that evoke some really powerful emotion in the player. Or at least look cool.



3rd Party Wall of Shame

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=30478.msg581036#msg581036

Innervate on 04 January 2010
psrock said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
psrock said:
Because MS and Sony NEEDS them more and help them, while Nintendo does not carter to them at all.

They do, if developers are willing to work with them. Nintendo is going to help market Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter to the west. Note Sony did the same for Final Fantasy VII.

MS and Sony reach out to them, they don't wait for them. Like I said, the HD  systems depends on third party support, while Nintendo doesnt.

You're confusing reaching out with money hat. 3rd parties love that Microsoft and Sony throws money at them for support, it gives them the false sense of entitlement that they seek. Nintendo is trying to reach out to 3rd party developers, but are also refusing to buy up studios and support (for reasons they have stated, and because it can get costly). Now it can be argued if they should be tossing money at 3rd party developers and publishers, but to claim Nintendo doesn't care about reaching out to 3rd parties is asinine.



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Gamerace on 04 January 2010

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that much of the Wii base that would be interested in those games are also owners of HD consoles and would either - buy the superior HD version instead, or a Wii version sale over a HD version would be a detriment to the developer because of the high cost of HD development.

There is a market on Wii for such games, but it's very small compared to that same market on HD consoles. Even the oft-mentioned CoDWaW or CoD:MWR only sell a fraction of what their HD counterparts due despite the Wii having a far larger install base.

The core market on Wii also tends to be the 'after market'. IE: The people that wait until the game becomes cheap before buying it. PC has a very large aftermarket as you can see by all the $5 and $10 games available like Myst and the original World of Warcraft/Diablo/Starcraft games still selling to this day. Dead Space:Extraction and likely RE:DC and Silent Hill will probably see a lot of their sales after price drops. Blazing Angels sold amazingly well on Wii but only at a budget price.

You can see how many games that didn't light up the charts (Spyborgs, Indiana Jones atSoK) at launch now immediately drop their price to $20 or less to attract the after market before getting squeezed off store shelves. This has become a sad reality that only encourages people to wait for price drops. Why am I going to pay $50 for Silent Hill of FF:CC:CB if they'll likely be $20 next month? I won't.

For these reasons, it makes little sense for any but the biggest brand name games (Star Wars / CoD) to do Wii ports.

Also, some games (fighters) aren't done justice by Wii controls. Some are made better by Wii controls and I'm still waiting for my GTA Wii which would be awesome, especially with local multiplayer.



 

The Ghost of RubangB on 04 January 2010

I think they're allergic to giant buckets of money.



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Arius Dion on 04 January 2010

Believe it or not the NES also was widely shunned by Third Parties (mostly western) early on in its life. All of the words you are hearing now about Wii being a fad and having outdated tech, and being for kids etc. is all really just a bunch of deja vu for those old enough to remember or those interested in doing research about history. But in any event, the NES TP support picked up towards the end of its life because many publishers were either losing money on the gaming centric PC's or just getting a lot of heat from shareholders as to why they are leaving so much money on the table with not developing for the NES.

You do have to wonder why installed base alone was not enough to woo third parties en masse like it did the PS1 and more recently the DS. I dont believe it is as simple as "technologically limiting" we've all heard that crap before.



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

bdbdbd on 04 January 2010

@Gamerace: I already did point it out. Though, i didn't go into detail.

The pricedrop with the games seems to work only with games that actually have ones. Not dropping the price of games haven't hurt the sales of first party games.



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Eikä Japanisti.

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Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

Gamerace on 04 January 2010
bdbdbd said:
@Gamerace: I already did point it out. Though, i didn't go into detail.

The pricedrop with the games seems to work only with games that actually have ones. Not dropping the price of games haven't hurt the sales of first party games.


That's because Nintendo makes games for a wide audience and that have massive staying power (and don't come out with yearly editions).    However, FE:RD did get dropped to $20, Warioland: Shake has been priced dropped and Metroid 3 was effectively dropped to $20 with the trilogy ($20 / game).    Animal Crossing has special price discounts all the time and Brawl occasionally sees price discounts as well.   So even the big N is not totally immune.   However, Nintendo in general doesn't follow the business model of gradually decreasing price.   Everyone else does.