Well, while you'll probably call it another 'dumbed down' RPG, Old Republic is going to feature 8 classes, at LEAST 10 worlds and they've said 200+ hours of content per character.  But since its an MMORPG, I'd assume all of that would only grow.

Ok, so we are now to where WRPG's end up suffering because of the attributes that make them.  I happen to take WRPGs as being stat-building games, where players command a single player directly, and you play in the equivalent of a sandbox.  The attibutes have been emphasized more, but the entire game isn't evolving except getting to be larger to some extent (Elder Scroll is actually shrinking in size).  Massive multiplayer seems to be the direction where the most development for RPGs is taking place.

Anyhow, this being said, Fable III is piquing my interest.  I was waiting years for a game where you start out as an individual and become king, and then run a kingdom, is the point of the game.

My only consolation is that by next gen all games are gonna be like Wii Sports, then I will laugh as I watch the people who like those dumbed down games cry about how THEIR games got even dumber. The irony will be hilarious.

I agree that Morrowind is the best thing to cocme out of Bethesda, sadly I doubt anyhing will change in the future, from either Beth or BW. It will only probably get worse, as I said.

@Kenryouko

I'll measure Old Republic against things like WoW and lineage and everquest, not Neverwinter Nights, BG, and IWD. So in fact it might actually be nice and comples. Or it could be an even more dumbed down MMO than WoW (is that even possible?).

Lol, what you guys call "dumbing down" I call refinement. I thought some of the "dumbing down" elements in Oblivion were a vast improvement on some of the more annoying elements of Morrowind (fast travel, no hidden stats deciding your accuracy). Don't get me wrong, I miss some of the spells and skills from Morrowind (axes aren't blunt, lol, levitation anyone?) but overall, I liked the direction the series took. Having said that I have to admit, with the number of mods I've installed it's difficult for me to say how the original game played, lol.

And with games like Neverwinter and Baldurs Gate, you kind of needed to include all the stats and the feats as they're a part of D&D which has been going for ages. Star Wars doesn't have aywahere near the depth of D&D for that sort of thing so they could get away with less feats and spells/powers. Again with Dragon Age, they've invented their own system which is quite new and doesn't have the rich history and depth of D&D.

I think I might start playing Neverwinter nights.

I've seen it with the two expansion packs for like a fiver for years, just never bought it :O. *Checks Steam*.

@ Marc "What was the last Jrpg that offered any sort of choice aside from simply wearing the most expensive item you can find?" Demon's Souls genius. Also, lol at your blanket statement on jrpgs needing less brain power to complete, way to generalize.

I think BioWare has evolved the story telling aspect of the rpg genre more then anything else. The quality of the writing and the voice acting in ME is amazing. Providing voice acting for every dialogue options was huge, and having you choose a emotional response rather then a scripted response was a nice touch. On top of that the presentation was solid, every interaction was shot from a number of angles as opposed to a game like Oblivion where you stare in to some npcs vacant face during every conversation. I think BioWare handles chooses well, but when every you put the decision making in the players hands you lose something in the narrative although you gain some immersive quality's.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with jrpgs linear style of story telling. My big problem with jrpgs this generation has simply been a lack of interesting story's, Lost Odyssey being a notable exception. Western rpgs have just done a better job telling compelling story's this generation. A great narrative, characters, and environments are what draw me to these type of games more then the game play. I think western rpgs have done a better job with game play by mixing action and turn based elements, but if the story is good enough in a rpg I have no problem playing a simple turn based system. Lost Odyssey is great example of this. If Jrpgs could create more interesting adventures that are a little more adult, Lost Odyssey I'm looking at you again, I believe they could recapture a large portion of gamers who have moved on to wrpgs since the last generation.

Yeah, jrpg:s have been exactly the same for what, 15 years? Wrpg:s are so much better than those boreass grindfests what people call japanese role playing games.

I'm playing through Mass Effect right now and to be quite honest, I'm not really digging it. I don't mind wrpgs but it depends on the wrpg (the same can be said about my view of jrpgs). I liked Fable II. I really liked the "Sims"-like elements of Fable II. Buying up properties and raising prices through the roof to make yourself rich and pissing off all the villagers, going around sleeping with a bunch of people and spreading STDs (threesomes, orgies and committing adultery is always fun. "Get away from my husband you strumpet!"), being able to kill civilians whenever they piss you off or just for fun. Mass Effect may be seen as a more traditional wrpg compared to Fable (which is more of a casual wrpg) but Fable II was fun. And to be quite honest I'm not really digging Mass Effect's combat. I just can't get into it. Maybe I'll grow to like it. Who knows.

I have wondered if maybe it's because I'm not that experienced with shooters but I DID love Crackdown (TPS/vertical sandbox to be precise) and Borderlands looks like it would be a lot of fun (First-person Diablo with guns). Though on the other hand, I wasn't crazy about Gears 2's single-player campaign. While I liked Gears of War 2 at first, the single-player campaign felt tedious after awhile and I just wanted to get it over with. And to me ME felt like KOTOR and Gears of War made a baby so maybe that's why I'm not crazy about the combat. Maybe I just prefer a more run n gun type of shooter as opposed to more slow-paced tactical shooters (like ME and Gears). When I think shooter, I want something that gets your adrenaline going. Not these slow-paced affairs.

It might be that the shooting and combat in ME was distinctly average and not that polished - at least IMHO.  ME to me was a success and got the plaudits it did because it seemed to a console audience to be amazing (much like Bioshock before it) vs the real benchmark for such titles, and because it seemed to offer a much more action/combat experience in line wth popular Western tastes, not because it really was an amazing game, because I'd argue it wasn't.  It's a good game with some damn poor design (the inventory system for a start is awful from people with Bioware's experience and other examples in the genre) and a very familiar and borrowed plot.  Still good, and I'll definately get ME2, but I have a hunch that, when ME2 arrives, it'll be what many were making ME to be in the first place.

Still, I'll take a solid new IP with flaws that delivers a superior sequel over the latest iteration of a tired franchise anyday.