Here's the thing though. There's a double standard; A game that flops on Wii its Wii's fault, a game that flops on the HD systems its the games fault.

See the platform is never to blame. Chinatown Wars is a top down GTA the last top down GTA was GTA2 which was before GTA blew up. And the PSp sales show that its appeal isn't far reaching and in no way is comparable to their 3-d counterparts.

Exactly, Wii receives Spin-offs. Look at Bioshock, successful on 360 ported to PS3 and its sales aren't much to talk about. If Either HD console was treated like Wii the games would have a hard time selling as well. I'm sick of third parties putting shit on Wii's plate and calling it filet minion steak.

Dead Space underperformed on HD platforms so a Spin-off Rail shooter is supposed to sell millions of copies? The backlash on forums regarding EA's decision was humungus.

I see I see... so if by any chance they respond (sorry for the inconvineince sir, "we shall bring a quality title to the system of your choice".

next day: We announce X game which will be AAA quality and surprass any generations's offereing... then will you really need this... :l

I love your deabting style, it probably impresses everyone you know. Just tell there I'm wrong or being a fanboy instead of being childish. Your profile says 26 years old with a good education and a good job, act like it and do what (almost) everyone else does; discuss. Your index finger does nothing to prove points.

Arius Dion; the last sentence in my post went without comment so I'll ask differently this time; do you or don't you think that the past two generations are a big part of why Nintendo has such a strained relationship with 3rd parties? They've never been known to have a good relationship with them, the fees from the 80's and 90's in mind and unorthodox format (cartridge in N64 and mini DVD on GC) choices being some of the reason I imagine and their inability to move home console hardware for ten years before the Wii launched is probably a factor as well.

Thing is, I'm not solely blaming the Wii or Nintendo for 3rd party efforts being slack, the developers themselves are also to blame, of course. But its about taking risks when you have something safe and familiar. You are, however, solely blaming the developers, which is also unfair given Nintendo's history with them, neither has tried very hard to make the other happy to put it bluntly.

MM: Sorry I didn't read all the way through. I read the initial parts and just went from there, my mistake. Nintendo's practices back in the 80's and and 90's (NES-N64) You can see why third parties were weary of Nintendo. That was under Yamauchi and he was an iron fist (I liked his style lol) He and Square's President really had a bitter engagement.

But with GC and Iwata taking over Nintendo began being much more humble and showed more humility then they have ever done before. With the GC it was more powerful than the PS2, easier to develop for and was still froze out of Third Party games. You can point to installed base and say it was too low. With the Wii though its outselling its competitors handily individually and often times combined, it is easy to develop for Nintendo has welcomed Third Parties with open arms and still pretty much froze out. With the excuse being Hardware or 'userbase audience'. There is always something, its like wack a mole.

I can definitely understand not betting on Nintendo with the Wii as a CEO of a third party company I would have bet heavily on PS3 too though after seeing the initial price I would have scaled back considerably. But after a couple of years that would have changed. Rather than parrot people calling Wii a fad I would have been throwing resources at the platform. Like Fahey says of the DS. Wii is not third parties enemy but they treat it like one.

But honestly, I don't think Nintendo and third party third party situation is really about grudges. If it were DS would be froze out as well. Because the PSP/DS battle was eerily similar to PS3/Wii. Where you see differences I see similarities. Many third parties put their resources with PSP, DS was supported primarily with Nintendo 'casual games' and was drenched in third party shovelware then the shift happened after DS' installed base became to much to ignore and the rest is history. Seems third parties didn't hold so much a grudge for Nintendo after all. DS gets more third party support than any system I've seen (Japanese)

So see a shift did occur towards Nintendo and TP's were not scared to compete with Nintendo on their own platform. To me though Wii has most in common with NES as the best games NES was known for (from TP's) came towards the latter end of its life.

Wii is a software beast. When Nintendo can state they've sold more third party software than their competitors yet havent received half the resources of them that speaks volumes.

The thing with me MM, is that I don't buy the excuses because that's all they are. Third Parties are their own entity and make their own decisions. They seem to be pist and question the Wii when their mediocrity doesn't sell, that's not my problem. Like the old adage goes "the customer is always right"

If third parties are having a hard time selling now because of the abundance of shovelware they've drenched the Wii with then that is their own problem. As far as I'm concerned they are leavin way too much money on the table. You can only go so long saying "we bet on the wrong horse" or "this is a test game" before your test subjects say f-this I'm outta here.

Third parties don't owe wii owners anything. It's a shame that the Wii control scheme has been underutilized as games that would work well with it are nowhere to be seen. Even so, buy another platform if you're not satisfied with the current support the Wii is getting.

Nintendo made an underpowered console that is difficult for third parties to develop multiplatform games for.  That is the main reason Wii is not getting the support this generation.  The second reason is that the Wii demographic does not seem to match up with the games under developmnent by third parties, so when the games do get released on the platform, they underperform.  If you don't blame Nintendo for setting the Wii specs to be what they are, and then making the first party games so that they appeal to a certain demographic, who do you blame?

Now that's what I call a good response!

Unfortunately, it appears that this generation is set in stone for better and for worse. The Wii will be the victor without a doubt in hardware sales and it will continue selling a whole lot of 3rd party software but it won't get the chance to show that it might be able to sell the "real deal" (main franchise installments of Resident Evil, Final Fantasy etc) due to the nature of;

A: The timid attitude of the developers.

B: The limitations in hardware which can't be worked around (timidness can, in time).

C: With the generation probably halfway through, the odds are slim indeed that there will be a massive shift in efforts from 3rd parties, they'll stick to their guns and ride this one out I think.

The light in the end of the tunnel in all this could be that come the start of next generation the developers will be faced with a Nintendo in really good shape, having devastated the competition in both home console and handheld market and having moved heaps more software than any previous Nintendo console ever dreamed of. That can't be ignored. In addition, I think Nintendo might think twice about making the hardware that much less capable, lending yet another advantage in terms of a more user friendly developing environment. In short; the next generation will probably be a lot more even when it comes to the distribution of 3rd party efforts, there is simply no reason for it not to (maybe Malstrom will finally get his panties out of bunch too).

right?
oh god what this world gone to?

it was nintendo choice to underpower their console, i assure u with the right hardware it have gotten ports.

^ROFL, with the higher hardware, it would have cost more and had lower sales, so they still wouldn't dev for it

That's how I see it. When Nintendo went the powerful route with GC they were froze out. I don't think hardware limitiations is a legit excuse at this point. Especially since dev costs are so high in comparison to Wii dev costs and look at the money being lost by big name publishers even when their games do great sales numbers. That's scary..and dumb.

MM:Thanks:) it's been cool discussing this issue with you.