There's really no point in arguing with you over things, because you seriously fail to see fact or reason.  True, we may live in a disposable
generation, but that does not extend to all aspects of life.  Especially costly electronics.  And since the the final standard profile for Blu-ray players makes it mandatory to have internet access, updating is easier than before.  But I will admit much older customers won't, but they probably won't really care for the added benefits the upgrade brings.

Since when is it mandatory to have an internet connection to use your bluray player...oh wait...NEVER. See, not everybody has an internet connection, and many who do, won't be running a cable to their bluray player. 1TB bluray discs will NOT happen for movies, and for this reason, even arguing this point is ridiculous.   

I find it funny that you continuously speak as if we live in a technologically "stupid" world, yet you see that DLC will win out over Blu-ray.  If people are so confused by tech, DLC has no chance in hell to succeed.  It's so much simplier to stick in a Blu-ray into a player than it is to set up a machine to DL movies from the internet.  I mean what happens when the program they use to download movies needs updating to use?  They'll just say screw it and buy a new one?  Highly doubt it.  We live in a more technologically minded world than you think.  And you better thank God for that if you want DLC to win out over Blu-ray.

"DLC" is cheaper, easier than firmware updates, and is more readily available to those with internet connections. The facts don't lie son, "DLC" is already taking over physical media market share. the fact that you act like a quick easy update is just like a firmware update that most people won't know about, and many of those who do, are intimidated by the fact that you must find the right update, download it, burn it to a disc pop it in your player, then hope to god you don't brick the darn thing...well you really need some help...   

Sorry but people weren't popping records into their cars in the 60's and 70's.  Even if you still don't want to go with the true events of that time, a time you yourself admit to have no experience in, you still can't claim that 8-track was a flop.  Even using your history, they had competition of LP's and cassettes, and 8-tracks still stuck around for almost 2 decades since it's launch (nearly 3 if you count radio stations using them).  No matter how you wish to reinvision history, it won't change it for historians or those who lived in that time period.  So just do yourself a favor.  Be humble and admit you were wrong.  8-tracks weren't a dismal failure.  Hell you can even throw in that Blu-ray isn't, but I won't force you.

Records could not be brought on road trips because they skipped, this is why 8tracks gained popularity until the smaller, more portable, less problematic, cassette took over. I mean seriously, now you are just grasping for straws, you know, many cars STILL come with cassette players...where are the 8tracks??? You can still buy NEW LPs from NEW artists. You can even still purchase tapes...but I have yet to see an 8track of any new artists. Now, while it is true 8tracks stuck around for almost two decades, they didn't even maintain popularity for one. So yes, 8tracks WERE a failure, ask anybody from that time period...well anybody not trying to defend Bluray with every last breath of their dying argument.  

LOL.  Blu-ray is expensive?  And how much do you think DVD cost in it's first years?  Believe it or not, the prices were pretty much the same.  In fact a lot of DVD players were over $1,000 when they came out.  All electronics are like this.  It's so funny how people forget this so fast, just because it helps their argument.  The fact is Blu-ray has dropped significantly since launch.  In fact some movies sell at $10, granted the movies are a little older.  And a lot of new movies are $25, only $5 more than brand new DVD's.

Yes, DVDs were expensive at first, but they didn't have the competition of "DLC" nor were they the virtually the same quality as VHS's (there were no upconverting VHS players) Given those two facts alone, it is expensive to replace your entire DVD collection. Bluray has come too late, "DLC" is gobbling up market share, and Bluray is not gaining ground fast enough to actually become popular for any great amount of time. 

You misunderstood me.  I was saying that people can keep their old movies.  But when a NEW movie is released, they can choose to buy either DVD or Blu-ray.  That's why Blu-ray will be successful.  Your old movies will not become obsolete, as VHS did when DVD came out.  And please don't try and say that's pointless because VHS was a failure.  It would only make you seem more ignorant.

Yes, but if a person does not plan to spend hundreds on upgrading to bluray, why buy a bluray disc that they cannot play? Oh hey! When did I ever say VHS was a failure? You really are a silly little man. 

The Wal-mart I go to is a Super Wal-mart with a pretty big electronics department (I also go to a regular Wal-mart closer to me, but it's the same situation).  All I know is they had maybe 1 DVD/VHS combo, 1 upconverting DVD player, and like 6 Blu-ray players.  More stores are going to be like this in the next few months, if they haven't already.  Especially as DVD sales fall, and Blu-ray continues to rise.  And until I see any sales numbers for upconverting DVD players, I'm going to have to assume they are not in high demand.  Otherwise there would be more of them on shelves than Blu-ray players.

Funny, because both SUPER Walmarts in Rochester, MN, and the two regular Walmarts in the Twin cities metro area that I have visited recently starkly contrast your two Walmart scenarios. Lemme see, 2...vs. 4....I wonder who has a better handle on what the real situation is like? Oh hey, I havn't even talked about the SuperTargets, or the two Best Buys...or even the Ultimate Electronics I have been too lately...which all had a similar situation to the one I cited earlier.  

thismeintiel said:
Oh, ironman. You sound like the technologically impaired who screamed we don't need DVD, VHS is fine. All your "facts" are based around pesonal preference, or just not wanting to admit you are wrong.

I was hoping you wouldn't stoop to that level of Absurdity. I won't grace it with a comment...however, just to give some perspective, this is coming from a guy who insists 8 tracks were not a failure.

Ever since the Final Standard Profile 2.0 was agreed upon for Blu-ray players, it is mandatory for them to have internet capabilities. This doesn't mean Wi-fi, though some models do support Wi-fi. True, older models weren't required to, but they are now. This is to utilize the BD-Live features found on most Blu-rays. And as of the end of the first quarter of 2009, the DEG has stated that 3/4 of all Blu-ray players in homes were BD-Live capable. Sorry that's a fact.

No, it is not manditory for all bluray players to have an internet connection. if that were the case, then everysing one on the shelves would have an ethernet port, and not all of them do. Plus, you don't have to have the damn thing plugged into the internet to use it, the vast majority of people will not. Sorry that is a fact.

How is DLC (technically we're talking digital media downloads, but it's much easier to type DLC) cheaper and eaiser than a firmware update? Firmware updates are free, and given you have an internet connection very easy to install. Sorry the majority of the world are not as scared of tech as you are. Our tech is advancing everyday, and with that comes updates. And guess what, people update. Now if you can show me a poll or study that proves otherwise, then I'll concede. But until that, sorry, you're just wrong. And anyone on these boards will tell as much. Besides we're comparing Blu-ray to DLC, not DLC to firmware updates.

DLC is cheaper and easier than Bluray, not firmware updates. I fell you misunderstood what I said in my last post. I love the fact that you try to pin me as somebody who is afraid of tech. I was one of those people who downloaded the windows 7 beta early in it's inception, something a person who was afraid of technology, would never do. I probably know more about technology than you do your precious little 8 track tapes 9which I seem to know more about than you anyway.) I'm probably one of the bigger tech geeks out there...but hey, if it helps you sleep at night, keep thinking that I am afraid of technology. Updates for computers and consoles are different, people are more likely to have these hooked up to the internet than they are a Bluray player. SO, in order to do a firmware update, they must go through the steps I outlined previously. Something which many people won't do. Something that I did with my DVD player..oh and I hacked my second DVD player so It is now reagion free....that sounds like something a person who is afraid of technology would do...doesn't it? Oh, and you were the one trying to compair DLC to firmware updates...so yeah...

I have a question. Do you really use Linux? Do you ever have to update anything on that? What do you do if you have to? Do you panic, or just hit update? Because you want to put firmware and software updates apart from each other, but they both have the possibility of crashing your computer. What does someone so afraid of tech even have a PC for? Let alone try something so open-sourced as Linux.

Linux does the updating for you, just like anything else that is plugged into the internet, and once again, you forget that I went through the process of updating the firmware on my DVD player, which was a far more involving process than just a simple "click yes to download and install updates"  Your ignorance is REALLY starting to show at this point. 

Seriously, what does 8-track have to do with Blu-ray? Just because you tied them together, and are faced with the fact that 8-track was a success, you want it to have failed so Blu-ray failed? Sorry but 8-track was not a failure. Failures do not stick around for 2 decades. Or become the prefered format for ad and jingle recording by DJ's for 3 decades. Failures last maybe 5-10 years, if that, with low sales and then fall into obscurity, only to be brought up to bash. But it's funny how older comedians can talk about when they had an 8-track player, and everyone in the crowd cheers.

Since you forgot, I said Bluray is like the 8track of yesteryear. It will fail, it has too much going against it. I really don't get why you insist that 8 tracks didn't fail, they were not even popular for a decade, whereas records, tapes, and CDs have all been popular for upwords of two or more. 8 tracks FAILED, and with them, your argument. 

And don't ask me to ask someone, like I asked you before, because I have. Both parents, their brothers, sisters and friends, as well as the older guys I work with. They all had them, or had parents who owned them. Hell, my uncle bought a run-of-the-mill stereo in the mid 70's that still had a port for 8-tracks. The point is, they were seen as a success by those who lived in that time period, as well as the companies who continued to put them out. Just because you were born in an era where you couldn't see them, or because they are no longer around, doesn't mean they were a failure. Don't be blinded by cassettes HUGE success in the 80's from seeing others' successes. Can cassettes be considered a failure since they were replaced by CD's. What about children who are too young to know of VHS? Should it be considered a failure to them? Will DVD have been a failure when it's dead and gone? If you answer yes, don't bother answering.

Yes, but then, you can still get cars and stereos with tape players, does that mean tapes are still as popular as CDs? seriously, have you lost your mind? Your whole argument is based on something sticking around...mine is based on popularity, which is more relevant. 

Betamax was a failure. Even with it's quality and size superiority, it only garnered a cult following from videophiles. Except for Japan where Betamax was more popular, they lasted for 13 years, when Sony started making VHS players. Now the only reason these ran on for so long was because of the success in Japan, and maybe a little stubborness from Sony. So it might not have been a dismal failure, but a failure none the less. But the real point is that if something that is just outside the realm of failure last only 13 years, how can something you call a dismal failure last for almost 20, and still be looked back upon by many who had them favorably?

one word, POPULARITY. Something can "stick around" for 100 years, but if it's only popular for 8...if failed miserably. Honestly, how many times do i need to explain this simple concept to you? 

Of course it's expensive to replace your DVD collection. That's why most won't do it. And they don't have to. Or are you going to ignore that fact as well? And you do realize that Blu-ray is actually a larger leap in quality over DVD than DVD was to VHS, picture quality wise. And again don't ignore that I have agreed that DLC is going to gain some of DVD's market share. But most analysts agree it won't be the majority. And really DLC does have an advantage, as VOD/PPV is counted in it's sales numbers. Either way, it doesn't stop Blu-ray from continuing to gain market share.

As I said, if you are not planning to replace your DVD collection with Blurays, you will opt for the upconverting DVD player, rather than the Bluray player, in which case, you won't be buying new bluray discs...or did you forget about that little fact that i pointed out in my last post, really, this is just getting silly. DLC is eating into both DVD and Bluray's market share, and it will continue to do so. I laugh at your "analists" because already numbers are showing in favor of DLC especially with the advent of movie streaming sites.

Wal-marts are going to differ. The point is in the following years those DVD players will be gone to make room for Blu-ray completely. It's just how the times are a changing. What's funny is, I believe that if anyone else made Blu-rays, maybe MS, people like you would eat them up. Me, I just know they're the coming future. No point in hating, unless you want to look like alll those old DVD haters.

Yes, but I have been to four of them, to your two, and all four I have been to tell a very different tale than what you would like them to. So have all the other big retailers I have been to lately. I love that you call me an MS person, if I were and MS person, I would be using exclusively windows, not Ubuntu, Oh, and I wouldn't be defending Sony as I have on this forum in MANY cases...Oh, and i would never make fun of MS...you have a lot to learn kid. You sound like one of those Betamax people, which means you really can't be taken seriously. As for me, I like having movies in 1080P and having 5.1 surround sound...but since I have reason and logic on my side, I know bluray will not be the giant you hope it will. 

thismeintiel said:
Well this argument has started to bore me, so this will be my last post. Again you use nothing but your own personal preferences to show in what direction the world is going. Things you like in tech are going to succeed, while things you don't like won't. Have fun with that closed mindedness.

What, you get bored of getting owned constantly? And as for the last part of that statement, you definitely fail. My personal preference IS toward what Bluray has to offer and I stated that at least twice during the course of this thread, as well as countless other threads. But I know, because of how the market is staged, and because of history, that it will not succeed to the extent you seem to need it to.

You also don't see the future going on around you. You don't think as younger generations grow up they won't be more tech-informed? It's already happening. You don't think companies will expand the availibilty of broadband and Wi-fi? It's already happening. Things like firmware updates are becoming commonplace. And tech is evolving to make it easier to install them. If you really can't see that then you have your blinders on.

The future? You say DLC is not going to steal the spotlight from physical media, and yet, you speak of the future? You are truely a confused individual. 

My precious 8-tracks? I never even owned one. My only comment was that 8-track was not a failure as you wish to make it seem. And the only reason you wish to see it as a failure is because you linked Blu-ray to 8-track. The fact remains it was very popular for a decade, with it's biggest boom from '70-'74. It wasn't until '75 that cassette really started chipping away at its marketshare. Hell, they didn't even start to have cassette players in cars until '69-'70. So for 5 years it was the only option in cars.

Well if 8tracks were such a hit, why have you never owned one? I own records, I own tapes, I own CDs, and I own digital media...all of which are easily accessible even in todays market, and yet, there are no 8tracks to be found. I link Bluray to 8 track because both face/faced similar issues in the marketplace. One was a flop, so it is natural to assume the other will be as well.

Like I said, your blinded by your link with Blu-ray. Get rid of that and be open-minded. If a product can stick around for 2 decades, make profit, and still be liked by those who used to own them, there is no way to call it a failure. Of course you won't see that, since all you know is what you've grown up on. Where I can look at the past. In fact here's a link if you want the facts: http://stason.org/TULARC/musical-instruments/8-track-tapes/index.html

Even if a product sticks around for 2 decades, if it was not popular for more than 8 years, as apposed to all it's counter parts, who were all popular for more than 2 decades...well it's blatantly obvious that the unpopular media was a flop. This is a simple concept, try to understand it. 

How can you predict that eveyone who has DVD's will get an upconverting DVD player? By that logic there would be no Blu-ray players on the shelves. Why wouldn't they buy a Blu-ray player that also upconverts DVD's? New and old tech combined. In fact, a lot are. Otherwise, Blu-ray would be falling, not rising. And instead of 6 Blu-ray players, my Wal-mart would have 6 upconverting DVD players.

Did I ever say "everyone who has DVDs will get an upconverting DVD player"? No I did not, I merely stated that the majority of people will do so for quite some time. The upconverting DVD playback in most Bluray players is shoddy at best, this is not the reason for Blurays rise...which still hasn't reached the DVD summet. Your Walmart is a joke, I cited four that I have visited recently, and all of them told a very diferant story from your pathetic attempt to boost your argument. 

You speak as if digital downloads are just destroying DVD and Blu-ray, which is not true at all. It's rising, true, but it nowhere has the marketshare of DVD and Blu-ray combined. Like I said, digital downloads will not fail, as they make profit. But what you seem to want to ignore is that Blu-ray is also succeeding in making companies a profit. So they are supporting both, and both will stick around, as there is a market for both. Stop being so one-sided.

Yeah...no I never said DLC was destroying DVD and bluray...but then, once again, that would be too inconveniant for you to point out since it pretty much obliderates your sad argument. DLC IS taking over physical media market share, that is one fact you cannot escape. The Sony bluray dept has yet to turn a profit, I suspect this is the same with many other companies with their hands in the pot. 

So you didn't grow up when they had 8-tracks, but you call me a kid? LOL. Seriously how old are you? Ah, 22. I'm 25, so sorry I'm no kid. Especially compared to you. 

Oh, so you didn't grow up when they had 8 tracks either! So why do you think you have any more athority on that format than I do? You are one messed up kid.