By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - EA Dev: 'Game STORIES Are CRAP'! - (So he NEVER played MGS)?

Garcian Smith on 23 October 2009
The Ghost of RubangB said:

Manga and anime are not just for young teenagers.  They're for all ages.

I'm not going to step into this Japanese vs. Western storytelling pissing contest, but I studied Japanese literature, Japanese cinema, Japanese culture, and anime in college, before I changed my major from Japanese to Film.  And manga and anime are definitely for all ages.

And my wife loves Naruto, so you just called her a manchild.  Them's fightin' words.

There's absolutely no problem with enjoying something targeted toward a younger age group. My friends and I still watch Rocko and Animaniacs on a regular basis, for example. But I sure as hell don't think they're some sort of high art form.



"'Casual games' are something the 'Game Industry' invented to explain away the Wii success instead of actually listening or looking at what Nintendo did. There is no 'casual strategy' from Nintendo. 'Accessible strategy', yes, but ‘casual gamers’ is just the 'Game Industry''s polite way of saying what they feel: 'retarded gamers'."

 -Sean Malstrom

 

 

Around the Network
ph4nt on 23 October 2009

MGS and FF 6 are good...for game standards...but as far as actual movies go, they pale in comparison. I'd put game stories on the very low end of summer action flicks. If MGS was a movie, The Rotten Tomatoes score would be about 40. FF 6 would be a 20, most everything else would find it hard to get above 20%.

But stories are just there to give you a reason to shoot at someone anyway.



Helios on 23 October 2009

Garcian: Uh-huh. The simple fact that a work of art happens to be animated and/or appeal (in part) to a young(er) age group does not by itself limit it's artistic value, nor does it prevent it from telling great stories or dealing with relevant themes in a mature and thoughtful way.

And let's not forget, as Khuutra said, the value and merit of a story should be measured by how well it achieves it's intended purpose.

ph4nt: Would you be so kind to list some of these awezomzors "action flicks", if you please?



Riachu on 23 October 2009

I think comparing stories of one medium to another is just wrong and unfair. Stories in a medium should only be compared to stories in the same medium.



 

http://www.youtube.com/user/InvaderZimGuy1?feature=mhum

Garcian Smith on 23 October 2009
Helios said:

Garcian: Uh-huh. The simple fact that a work of art happens to be animated and/or appeal (in part) to a young(er) age group does not by itself limit it's artistic value, nor does it prevent it from telling great stories or dealing with relevant themes in a mature and thoughtful way.

And let's not forget, as Khuutra said, the value and merit of a story should be measured by how well it achieves it's intended purpose.

There is nothing mature or thoughtful about Naruto or DBZ. Nor do either tell anything close to a great story. They're cartoon shows marketed to young teens and designed to sell action figures and other merch.

Also, that comment about the value and merit of a story is bollocks. If I write a story with the intention that it be the worst story ever, and succeed, does my story have value on par with a Nabokov novel?



"'Casual games' are something the 'Game Industry' invented to explain away the Wii success instead of actually listening or looking at what Nintendo did. There is no 'casual strategy' from Nintendo. 'Accessible strategy', yes, but ‘casual gamers’ is just the 'Game Industry''s polite way of saying what they feel: 'retarded gamers'."

 -Sean Malstrom

 

 

Around the Network
NNN2004 on 23 October 2009
C_Hollomon said:
Garcian Smith said:
C_Hollomon said:
BoneArk said:
That's the big difference between Japanese and American developers. Japanese devs are great story tellers and American devs are not.


I agree.  Japanese games do have better stories to me.  Japanese people put more heart and soul into they work.  Look at Japanese anime like Naruto, Bleach, DBZ, and others.  They have good story lines and great fighting scenes also.  I hate American cartoons. 

Naruto, Bleach, and DBZ are cartoons targeted at young teenagers. The only other people who think that they're deep, soulful works of fiction are Western manchildren.


Well I like anime and some people don't grow out of them just like video games which is also targeted at young teens.  I rather watch anime instead of crapy reality shows like Flavor of Love.

lol true japanese anime is far better than any american tv shows or cartoon .. except Friends :P



Khuutra on 23 October 2009
Garcian Smith said:

There is nothing mature or thoughtful about Naruto or DBZ. Nor do either tell anything close to a great story. They're cartoon shows marketed to young teens and designed to sell action figures and other merch.

Also, that comment about the value and merit of a story is bollocks. If I write a story with the intention that it be the worst story ever, and succeed, does my story have value on par with a Nabokov novel?

Reductio ad absurdum arguments only work when you are taking the entirety of a statement into consideration. My original point is that stories can fill out different niches according to different intents and still be excellent undner a given set of criteria.

Let's ignore, for the moment, that there's no such thing as an objective standard of quality when it comes to the arts, and absolute statements of quality have to be taken as intrinsically absurd, following that. We can ignore that, right? I hope so, because we have been so far!

All right, let's take an example here... Hell, let's use Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball is a series made primarily for kids, taken as a (very) loose adaptation of The JOurney to the West. On the other hand, let's take another good TV show... we'll say The Wire.

Is Dragon Ball as good as The Wire? Probably not. But it is a much better children's show.

The same logic can be used for stories in almost any medium. Gears of War may not have a grand and meaningful narrative but it's a damn good romp about shooting things and also blowing things up.



Helios on 23 October 2009

Garcian: Well, I don't watch anime, but I'll be damned if Animaniacs isn't one of the best comedy shows ever created. My point was that Naruto, if it is indeed as bad as people say, isn't bad because it is anime or because it is aimed at teenagers - it's bad (for you) because (you think) it's bad.

And that's a bit of a straw man, isn't it? If you indeed did explore the possibilities of "poor" (that is, unconventional) writing, then perhaps it would be one of the greatest stories ever told. Keep in mind that quality is subjective - if your story is good at what it does, you would most likely find your proponents. Or perhaps it would not be a story (in a traditionally narrative sense) at all, and the whole proposition is a non-sequitur - an impossibility per definition. In any case is most definitely an ivory tower argument, and as such is not really relevant within the context at hand.

Edit: Hah! Too late! Still, it seems Khuutra and I hold the same sentiments, so no damage done.



vlad321 on 23 October 2009
Khuutra said:
Garcian Smith said:

There is nothing mature or thoughtful about Naruto or DBZ. Nor do either tell anything close to a great story. They're cartoon shows marketed to young teens and designed to sell action figures and other merch.

Also, that comment about the value and merit of a story is bollocks. If I write a story with the intention that it be the worst story ever, and succeed, does my story have value on par with a Nabokov novel?

Reductio ad absurdum arguments only work when you are taking the entirety of a statement into consideration. My original point is that stories can fill out different niches according to different intents and still be excellent undner a given set of criteria.

Let's ignore, for the moment, that there's no such thing as an objective standard of quality when it comes to the arts, and absolute statements of quality have to be taken as intrinsically absurd, following that. We can ignore that, right? I hope so, because we have been so far!

All right, let's take an example here... Hell, let's use Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball is a series made primarily for kids, taken as a (very) loose adaptation of The JOurney to the West. On the other hand, let's take another good TV show... we'll say The Wire.

Is Dragon Ball as good as The Wire? Probably not. But it is a much better children's show.

The same logic can be used for stories in almost any medium. Gears of War may not have a grand and meaningful narrative but it's a damn good romp about shooting things and also blowing things up.

WHOA HEY WHOA WHOA HEY!

Don't utter The Wire in the same setence as that other one. DBZ being the one. My brother who would qualify as a kid would disagree with the statement as well. He absolutely loved The Wire once he got used to the accent.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Khuutra on 23 October 2009
vlad321 said:

WHOA HEY WHOA WHOA HEY!

Don't utter The Wire in the same setence as that other one. DBZ being the one. My brother who would qualify as a kid would disagree with the statement as well. He absolutely loved The Wire once he got used to the accent.

If you think "The Wire" is a better kid's show than Dragon Ball (not Z), there is nothing I can say to you.