lol, ok I thought you were going down the road of paying for gaming online is a ripoff because you already pay for your internet.

Yes but does your ISP offer the e-mail accounts, mine offers 3, but I didn't bother with them, I use strictly gmail.

Hey, how about this, do you pay to access porn sites???Because if you do, well,  those porn sites are asshats for charging you money to use the internet service you are already paying for.

I know it seems like I'm picking on you, but I am just trying to challenge you to rethink your argument. Paying for XBL is like paying to use a toll highway. You already bought your car, so why should you pay to use it everywhere. Or the netflix argument, "well, I already pay for my internet service, so why should I pay Netflix to stream movies" 

Basically what I am saying is you CANNOT, in all seriousness say that paying for XBL is like paying to use the internet or games you are already using. You are paying for an EXTRA service. I told people earlier not to bring up XBL because it would only start a shitstorm, and the way you have been skirting around my answers tells me you know your argument was flawed. I was hoping people could be civil and just give the amount they would pay, and why...I guess that was just too much to ask.

That is precisely why I won't pay for online gaming.

I look at it like this. I would pay Netflix $10/month to rent movies through the mail. Instant view is added in as a basic part of your package, nothing extra needing to be paid, unless of course you use a 360 to use it. BD players do not charge for it, streaming it through my PS3 also costs me nothing, my PC connection does not require extra charges for it. Why does MS charge me for it?

I bought Diablo 2 for $40 and I got to play it for 4 straight years for free. I got to play Guildwars for free. I got to play Starcraft for free. I got to play Smash Bros for free. I got to play TF2 on PS3 for free, but not free on XBox360? This is a "WTF?" situation for me and I don't care what anyone else's take is on the situation.

If Sony charged me in the same way, I would dump their online service worse than a bad habit and you can quote me on that. Paying for a service that has been free for well over a decade is just flat out bullshit, especially when what they offer is barely above what others offer, especially in the gaming department. Facebook? Last FM? Netflix? Who cares? PS3/Wii browsers get me the first two products free of charge and for the third, there are no additional costs beyond that product's $10+/month subscription fee.

What makes LIVE so special? The fact that it uses the same internet connection I already pay $60/month for to host the games I also already paid for? 

Doesn't seem fair to me.

Your view may be different, but mine most definitely isn't.

Sorry for the rant. I'm am just not a fan at all when it comes to pay-to-play gaming. Want to pay to play? Let me get the game for free to start with.

That is precisely why I won't pay for online gaming.

So I was right, that argument is utter fail.

I look at it like this. I would pay Netflix $10/month to rent movies through the mail. Instant view is added in as a basic part of your package, nothing extra needing to be paid, unless of course you use a 360 to use it. BD players do not charge for it, streaming it through my PS3 also costs me nothing, my PC connection does not require extra charges for it. Why does MS charge me for it?

Instant view is another package, you can either rent one DVD at a time for five bucks, or rent one and get instant Que for 8 bucks. MS doesn't charge you for your internet connection, you cannot use ANY online service, pay or not, without first obtaining an internet connection. To say that MS is charging you twice for the same internet connection is...well...hipocrtitical since you don't bitch and moan about having to pay for other services. and let';s be honest, thats all live is, a service.

I bought Diablo 2 for $40 and I got to play it for 4 straight years for free. I got to play Guildwars for free. I got to play Starcraft for free. I got to play Smash Bros for free. I got to play TF2 on PS3 for free, but not free on XBox360? This is a "WTF?" situation for me and I don't care what anyone else's take is on the situation.

So be it, but at least use an argument that doesn't fail as much as the aformentioned one.

If Sony charged me in the same way, I would dump their online service worse than a bad habit and you can quote me on that. Paying for a service that has been free for well over a decade is just flat out bullshit, especially when what they offer is barely above what others offer, especially in the gaming department. Facebook? Last FM? Netflix? Who cares? PS3/Wii browsers get me the first two products free of charge and for the third, there are no additional costs beyond that product's $10+/month subscription fee.

So what? You want to play games that are only on the 360 online with your friends who don't have a PS3, then suck it up and pay the $38.99 a year. If not, fine, that's your perogative, but to me, paying for Live is not bullshit, it is worth it because of those two things, then you add on the extras, well hey, great, even better. Sure, I could use a free service like XBC to network with other people, but let's be honest, it sucks compaired to Live (this coming from a guy who swore he would never pay for live as long as there was XBC)

What makes LIVE so special? The fact that it uses the same internet connection I already pay $60/month for to host the games I also already paid for? 

No, you are paying to be NETWORKED to your friends, as I said before, If you use any video streaming site that requires you to pay for their service, and if you visit porn sites that require you to pay, are you not also using the same internet connection you already pay $60.00 a month for? See how utterly rediculouse that argument is. You were doing fine up till you uttered those failed words...

Doesn't seem fair to me.

Your view may be different, but mine most definitely isn't.

Sorry for the rant. I'm am just not a fan at all when it comes to pay-to-play gaming. Want to pay to play? Let me get the game for free to start with.