ctalkeb said:
Just some quick questions: How does the bluray standard not allow you to use the features of VC1 or h.264 to their best extent? How have either VC1 or h.264 advanced since they were released? Unless you mean encoding tools/practises. I know that h.265 is being worked on, but that is hardly applicable. I always thought the "VC1 is better at lower bitrates"-thing was a myth, could you explain? Point 6: It really depends on the source material, yes, but that goes for newer movies as well. Point 7: This I'm almost completely sure is a myth. H.264 is a wider used format, which leads to more amateurs fucking up the video in the encoding process, but I can see no reason why it would be worse than VC1. |
Fair play I know it sounds like I'm an MS arse kissing goon but I do try to balance things out on a primarily sony biased forum so forgive my rude tone ;)
Anyways to try and answer you :)
1. The bluray "standard" has strict settings for things like maximum reference frames, minimum bitrate (i.e even a black screen has a certain bitrate that it doesn't need), keyframe distance, GOP frames...(do a search on google you will find out a lot). In all honesty it's over my head explaining the technical points. If you think about it this makes sense, the "standard" has to be set at some point in time and from that point no new features\advancements can be added because it would break compatibility with exisiting players. It's the same for the piracy scene. There are standards for "xvid", "divx4\5\6" and so on. They can make small tweaks to the encodes but only within a very strict boundry, you certainly won't be seeeing any massive improvements in compression once that "standard" has been agreed upon.
2. On the side of VC1 being more efficient at low bitrates - this is somewhat a myth technically and maybe I shouldn't have put it as bluntly as that. However the end result is true in that the tools for encoding using VC1 are far more user friendly and allow optimising by hand\visually by the encoder to add extra bitrate where artifacts would still be present and take it away where needed. This is how the movie studios in the day of HDDVD could achieve equal results to bluray at a much lower bitrate. Don't get me wrong as far as I'm concerned for the end user VC1 is a complete pile of shit. It's very inefficient because those tools aren't available to the end user. h264 will give very good results straight off the bat. But we're talking about professional encodes here and at low bitrates with the man hours that go into each encode since they are "for profit" you get results that are shockingly good at bitrates you wouldn't think possible.
3. On point 7, this is actually true VC1 does deal with grain better. I haven't read up on it much recently but I believe there are settings within the codec to actually look for grain and treat it as such and not treat it as "noise" as h264 does.
4. On the subject of source material with less noise (i.e newer stuff). I'm referring to that because this is generally the stuff that will be most popular on the service. I will say right now, stuff that is from the 70s\80s will NEVER look anywhere near as good as bluray on this streaming service. But at the end of the day I don't think many people will be using the service for that.
@DirtyP
Yeah the free online translators suck :P
And im part german, i speak a lil bit of it.
Another satisfied customer:
At this year's Electronic Entertainment Expo, Microsoft laid out its plan for Xbox Live. By adding Twitter, Facebook, Last.fm, and streaming high definition video, it was going to create a home entertainment product that would fulfill most of the needs of those buying home theater PCs, or at least add value to the Xbox Live Gold subscription.
Does the company succeed? We have a sneak peek at these features, and we have to say, the implementation is pretty impressive. Read on to see what you have to look forward to with the next big Xbox Live update.
Keep in mind that each of these updates is actually an application that you'll download from Xbox Live, meaning the integration into the dashboard isn't perfect; each one will need to be launched before use. Let's take a look at how well each application works.
Last.fm is a streaming music service that allows you to create custom stations based on your own likes and dislikes. On Xbox Live you're given a selection of premade stations, as well as the ability to create your own.
I began a station by putting in the band name "Wilco," and was treated to a song by one of my favorite bands. Next it played Uncle Tupelo, the band Jeff Tweedy began with Jay Farrar before their split into respective bands. In fact, the next track was by Son Volt, and when I said I liked that, it brought up "Avenues" by Whiskeytown. My Morning Jacket? No thanks. The next selection was from The Jayhawks, and I gave that one a heart. Very quickly it had an idea of what I was looking for, and served up some great music.
You'll also be treated to images of the band you're listening to on the screen, and you can pull up information about each band, as well as similar artists and tags describing the band. This all makes it simple to find other music you might be interested in, or to look through genres.
My next project was creating a station with rock from the '90s, so I started with Alice in Chains. That gave me a Mad Season track, which I said I didn't like. Then it gave me Pearl Jam, and then Stone Temple Pilots, and then Screaming Trees.
None of this is news if you've used Last.fm in the past—and your account will carry over to your Xbox 360 if you have—but if you're new to the service the interface is intuitive, and you'll be able to set up a perfect station in very short order. It's a good fit for the Xbox 360, and anything that can take me from Alice in Chains and get me to Faith No More in four steps is a very good thing.
A minor annoyance, however, is the fact you can't listen to music while doing other things. Since the Last.fm application has to be launched from the dashboard, you can't play music while looking at downloads or doing anything else.
Is this the time for another "welcome to the social" joke? The Twitter client allows you to update your status, read the latest tweets in your feed, search for topics, and take a look at what the current trending topics are. If you're going to Tweet, you're going to need to pick up a chat pad, as typing even 140 characters with the on-screen keyboard is painful. The interface is nice, bright, and easy to read.
The best thing? There is no way to automate Tweets. That means people won't flood their feed with information about what they're playing or what achievements they've unlocked; this is purely a straight-up Twitter client. Very nice.
Facebook is about what you'd expect. It's set up to look like the Xbox 360 dashboard, and you can check the status updates of friends, take a look at pictures, update your status, and in an odd twist it pointed out two other gaming writers who I was friends with on Facebook, but not on Xbox Live, and then offered me the ability to send them friend invitations.
The linking of all your social media networks may be getting somewhat out of hand.
Here's the supposed magic trick: the ability to stream high definition content instantly. We were given a code to download one of the Harry Potter films to try this feature, and the results speak for themselves.
A note on the video: my camera was set to record a teeny-tiny video, and I wanted to record the first time the video loaded. I re-recorded the video, but it said "resume" on the menu, and I didn't want things to look shady. This is the first time the video loaded, and it does so at a good speed. I want to show that off rather than get a slightly clearer video that would make people skeptical.
The video loads nearly instantly, you can skip chapters, and while it does take a moment or two for the video to snap into full high definition, once it does the image looks beautiful. The video marketplace has been rebranded with the Zune name, but the real star here is the streaming technology. You can still download the content if you'd like, but why wait?
Keep in mind the video quality is determined by your connection speed, but I'm not running anything special over here—a speed test showed my connection at 6.8Mbps download and 1.41Mbps upload. The service does what it advertises: streams high definition content instantly.
We'll see how things change when this update goes live and the servers get hit a little harder, but our limited testing is pretty impressive.
This is a solid set of updates, especially since everything will be free for Xbox Live Gold subscribers. The Facebook and Twitter applications were neat, but may not appeal to everyone. The Last.fm feature and streaming video, however, will both add some significant value to the service.
| Foibbles said: 1. The bluray "standard" has strict settings for things like maximum reference frames, minimum bitrate (i.e even a black screen has a certain bitrate that it doesn't need), keyframe distance, GOP frames...(do a search on google you will find out a lot). In all honesty it's over my head explaining the technical points. If you think about it this makes sense, the "standard" has to be set at some point in time and from that point no new featuresadvancements can be added because it would break compatibility with exisiting players. It's the same for the piracy scene. There are standards for "xvid", "divx456" and so on. They can make small tweaks to the encodes but only within a very strict boundry, you certainly won't be seeeing any massive improvements in compression once that "standard" has been agreed upon. 2. On the side of VC1 being more efficient at low bitrates - this is somewhat a myth technically and maybe I shouldn't have put it as bluntly as that. However the end result is true in that the tools for encoding using VC1 are far more user friendly and allow optimising by handvisually by the encoder to add extra bitrate where artifacts would still be present and take it away where needed. This is how the movie studios in the day of HDDVD could achieve equal results to bluray at a much lower bitrate. Don't get me wrong as far as I'm concerned for the end user VC1 is a complete pile of shit. It's very inefficient because those tools aren't available to the end user. h264 will give very good results straight off the bat. But we're talking about professional encodes here and at low bitrates with the man hours that go into each encode since they are "for profit" you get results that are shockingly good at bitrates you wouldn't think possible. 3. On point 7, this is actually true VC1 does deal with grain better. I haven't read up on it much recently but I believe there are settings within the codec to actually look for grain and treat it as such and not treat it as "noise" as h264 does. 4. On the subject of source material with less noise (i.e newer stuff). I'm referring to that because this is generally the stuff that will be most popular on the service. I will say right now, stuff that is from the 70s80s will NEVER look anywhere near as good as bluray on this streaming service. But at the end of the day I don't think many people will be using the service for that. |
Thank you for a serious answer. I should probably make clear that I wasn't rally trying to slag of MS in my post :)
1: Makes sense. I think this might be necessary for a .ts, but I could be wrong.
2: So, encoding tools. I don't know anything about professional-level tools for either format... Early blu-rays used MPEG-2 for compression, and consequently looked like shit.
3: I have read about this in relation to encoders overdoing some noise-removal settings for h.264. I'll probably have to find a proper article about it...
4: Yeah, absolutely. I was thinking more of the recent trend to add noise to movies during post-production. Like, say, recent James Bond or Batman movies.
I do think that the video service will look good, the question is more "will it look 6$ per movie-good?".
Looks pretty awesome. I think I may rent some 1080p movies and this gives me less of a reason to own blu-ray. It will be nice once you can purchase these to view forever.
It's just that simple.
About Us |
Terms of Use |
Privacy Policy |
Advertise |
Staff |
Contact
Display As Desktop
Display As Mobile
© 2006-2024 VGChartz Ltd. All rights reserved.
