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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Sony "pleading" with Third-party Devs?

Legend11 said:

I think it's impossible to calculate a budget based on the number of people working on a game simply because it's hard to tell how many of the people working on it are working for outside contractors.

For example there are companies in India that have what amounts to digital sweatshops where row after row of computer artists work in shifts making graphic assets for games. These people get paid a lot less than Western employees and because there are so many of them the companies are able to deliver work at much less cost.

So when a developer says that they have 150 or 200 or whatever number of people working on their game 50-100 (or possibly more) or those people may actually be those from the contractor. Don't get me wrong though I'm not saying all games with large numbers of people working on them do that but some definitely do.

Note: (Here's an example of some contractors and I'm not claiming any of these have sweatshops like the one I mentioned above (but there definitely is at least one out there like that...) http://www.gamasutra.com/contractwork/gameproduction.php)


It is difficult to come to an exact dollar figure, but being that you can use contractors for everything from GBA games to PS3 games it is reasonable to anticipate certain ratios between development.

Saying you can get 4 to 5 Wii development teams for every PS3 development team is not that crazy, he could have easily went from one extreme (MGS4 with 200 developers) to the other extreme (Trauma Center with 20 developers) and claimed that you could get 10 Wii development teams from every PS3 development team.



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If Sony isn't pleading with 3rd party devs to develop for their console; exclusive or not, then they are in trouble. Pleading for more developer support is something that all console manufacturers do, many plead with money, or offer advertising co-ops. It cannot really be argued that Sony isn't in the most favorable position to get new games. Why would you doubt that they are pleading for new games? Or does the term "plead" imply too much desperation for your collective likings?



Ok, ok ... first of all, it's his blog - hence personal opinion. Second, if it's the journalist's personal opinion, it's a glorified editorial and doesn't represent the Merc or any other news organization that picks it up. Unless it's a blog where a person is interviewed, well, that's a story.

After reading it, and it's appropriately called Dean's Take, it has a lot of truth to it. As I stated in another post, if you want to see how well a system is selling, head out to 4 or 5 stores in your area. If you notice a few of the same trends, that's a great barometer on how well something is being received. I have no problems spotting PS3s. All over Albuquerque, I see them. Shoot - I even see used ones for sale. 360s? Yeah, but not as many as PS3s. Wiis? Yeah - in displays.

Folks want to tout 'When the this game comes out on the PS3, it will move systems ' ... or 'When H@ME comes out, it will boost sales' or 'when the price cut hits ...' and all of it is really wishful thinking. Sony needs games - exclusive content - which throttled the PS2 into orbit. A lot of folks are forgetting that - and yes, it has 5M in sales, but I can promise you one thing - several folks bought a PS3 for the PS brand - or BR - and that's it. Devs are going the much painless route while SONY thumps its chest and touts it's stripped 40gb BR player that plays games too.

The Sony heads should get out more - get in touch with their customers more and listen. They aren't. They have enjoyed life in their ivory tower for so long they don't know what commoners want. Yeah, they have a few sales, but it's definitely not the software driving sales. It's potential - and devs aren't sold.

Is Sony pleading? Probably - that's horrible PR and Sony is definitely spin it. But fact of the matter is - why would devs want to spend money/time on PS3 projects that will barely cover bills when you can crank out 2-3 360 titles - with a huge potential for attach rates, unless it's "Hot Wheelz: Beat That" which should have never left a person's brain, much less become a game.



I think this article tells the truth (maybe not 4 to 5 team thing, but that is still likely). It's no stretch of the imagination. There have been a lot more Wii games in development and fewer PS3 exclusives. If Monster Hu8nter 3 is heading to the Wii because cost on the PS3 are too high, something is wrong.

This is just showing everyone how real this situation is. Ant economist would say that the PS3 venture was a bad idea but everyone said Sony would still dominate this generation. But looks who's winning. The underdogs. At this point, they aren't coming back from the brink. Their next move is what are they going to do now. They are losing money left and right and without third party royalties they can't break even.



shams said:
sieanr said:
According to Dean Takahashi, yes

"One piece of news that came out this week was that Sony pleaded with third-party developers not to abandon its struggling platform.

I'll believe it when I see a link to a real quote from a Sony executive. Otherwise its just interpretation.


No Sony executive or third-party developer is going to publicly say something like this, so you will never see a real quote from them. That does not mean it's "just interpretation."

Dean Takahashi is a journalist with the San Jose Mercury News, not some random kid who writes for a gaming site.  He is both well respected and well connected.

 

GamePro:

Takahashi cited "insider information" when contacted by GamePro for source clarification.



We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that they [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so the question is what do you do for the rest of the nine and half years? It's a learning process. - SCEI president Kaz Hirai

It's a virus where you buy it and you play it with your friends and they're like, "Oh my God that's so cool, I'm gonna go buy it." So you stop playing it after two months, but they buy it and they stop playing it after two months but they've showed it to someone else who then go out and buy it and so on. Everyone I know bought one and nobody turns it on. - Epic Games president Mike Capps

We have a real culture of thrift. The goal that I had in bringing a lot of the packaged goods folks into Activision about 10 years ago was to take all the fun out of making video games. - Activision CEO Bobby Kotick

 

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Soriku said:
footbag said:
If Sony isn't pleading with 3rd party devs to develop for their console; exclusive or not, then they are in trouble. Pleading for more developer support is something that all console manufacturers do, many plead with money, or offer advertising co-ops. It cannot really be argued that Sony isn't in the most favorable position to get new games. Why would you doubt that they are pleading for new games? Or does the term "plead" imply too much desperation for your collective likings?


Like konnichiwa said, Sony went to a bunch of companies and only Kojima listened that we gamers know, but then again he doesn't have much power in Konami (he does, but not a lot), so that certainly won't help much if any...


 Sorry Soriku but I had to fix this.  I only know that Sony is pleading and that Kojima has listened, it is a possibility that others have listened too and have a project for the PS3 at the moment we are debating this.






Sony are losing the most money this gen so far. And with the recent price drop forced on them by bad sales they lose even more.



cool48 said:
selnor said:
Entroper said:
selnor said:
The entire problem with PS3 development is it costs so much money and man power. Often to get just the same results you get on 360. Anyone remember the same on N64?

No, not really. :)


Look at GTA4. The real reason we all know it's put back is because of PS3. If it were 360 game alone it would be out this year.


 Yes, but I'd like to see the graphics difference. Wasn't it with XBOX that they were having trouble  fitting the game on DVD?

OPM: On PS3 you've got a guarantee that every machine is going to have a hard-drive and, with Blu-ray, you've got plenty of storage, whereas on Xbox 360 there's no guarantee of a hard-drive and you're working with the DVD format. Does that create limitations?

 

Houser: Yep.

 Both consoles have their problems, they're not both perfect.

 

http://ps3.qj.net/Rockstar-having-problems-with-360-s-limited-capacity-/pg/49/aid/91184


Yes but it's funny how theres an array of games with the 360 versions before PS3. Add to this that every demo shown of GTA4 is on 360 ( hence the pad). No showings what so ever of a PS3 build. Smells of cover up talk to me.



It's funny some guys are surprised by that situation.

In the Level Up discussion of May 07 between N'Gai Croal and Geoff Keighley (hope their famous enoug !), you could read that from GK :

"Already third party executives are telling me that if PS3 sales stay below 100k for 3 consecutive months, PS3 SKUs may start disappearing from release lists and in turn create a wealth of de-facto exclusives for the Xbox 360. Sony could stem the tide by supporting third parties financially with co-marketing for exclusivity (or even buying an exclusive window on a game), but I continue to hear tales of Sony expressing a lack of interest in securing third party exclusives."

 

source : http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/levelup/archive/2007/05/21/monday-morning-quarterback-for-april-2007.aspx

 

The way Sony act has probably change, but the situation regarding sales remains difficult.



things are looking rough for them, but with this new sku they should be able to hange a bit longer.