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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo is gaming, Sony/Microsoft are questionable.

Ail on 07 October 2009
bdbdbd said:
@Ail: Only if the console breaks down while still under warranty. As we all know, this isn't the case. I don't speculate with the number, but it does effect the CI.

Nobody is ignoring the biggest single market. The biggest single market experiences population growth, which is an anomaly in the western countries and this population growth drives growth in customer numbers, while the increase in games retail price drives revenue.

And, i'd recall there was a study about kids playing games less than they did earlier. Which means that it's going to effect to the number of customers in the near future.

I'm sorry but this has to be the lamest excuse ever.

Why do you even bother posting on this site if you believe all the numbers released by this site and the rest of the industry are artifically inflated by console failure repurchases ?

Heck, what numbers are we supposed to believe since you brilliantly demonstrated to us that we can not rely on any official number....

The industry is growing in revenue and in the number of consoles sold every gen, that is fact, backed by data. You can try to argue as much as you want, numbers do not lie....



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

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.jayderyu on 07 October 2009

So simply put. If gaming were to end due to proven bad strategies from Sony and MS these companies could care little since they have other sectors to work with. While Nintendo is all about Software Entertainment(lean towards gaming) have consideribly more invested future in gaming itself. So Nintendo can't afford to muck around and screw up like they did the 10 years prior to the Wii. Well the OP has it in a bad context, but in perspective of business it can be relativly accurate.



Squilliam: On Vgcharts its a commonly accepted practice to twist the bounds of plausibility in order to support your argument or agenda so I think its pretty cool that this gives me the precedent to say whatever I damn well please.

Dinomax on 07 October 2009
Dgc1808 said:
SONY is the company that takes care of the majority of my gaming needs. The Playstation Brand is arguably SONY's biggest branch and has been the backbone of their profits for many year. It wasn't until recently that they were having the profitability issues they have now.

Constantly reminding about they plan to keep each system on the market for as long as possible. Willing to lose big to establish technology for not just now but future systems. Focusing on creating new IP's each gen rather than relying on the old to carry the system. Nintendo may care more about gaming, but IMO SONY has showed just as well IF NOT MORE than Nintendo that they're in this industry for the long haul.

That's good enough for me.

Yeah, the company that develops less games, sells less both hardware and software,  acknowledges there hardware is difficult to work with,  now suddenly rushing out there secound attempt at a motion control sounds like a company that sure got its plans all worked out for the long run and whats best for the industry *sarcasm*  

To say Sony have done more now than Nintendo right now with the PS3 than Nintendo has with the Wii is just well...silly.

 

ChrisIsNotSexy said:
*sigh* Nintendo are selfish really :S,they make so much money,and still dont want to build a HD console,and theres more,it doesnt even put some decent shooters in it...Always Mario,Zelda or w/e...just make another revolutionary franchise ffs with all those money...Nintendo will always be like that,they will make consoles for profit only,without risking loosing money,or trying to actually step up gaming technology...i feel sad that is happening..Sony and Microsoft on the other hand invests in new franchises,they invest alot in a new console...people just cant seem to understand that,and they choose Nintendo just because its cheaper than...everything...those are the main reasons Nintendo are being on top atm.
I also think the crisis is helping Wii alot,without the crisis it's sales would probably be 20% less..or even more

 

1- Yeah Nintendo sure are selfish,  making a system affordable and easier to develop for, making a system that doesnt lose them billions of dollars resulting in them firing there staff or even bankrupting third partys.  Sounds like a real dick move by them.  

2-  Invest with new franchises with all that money?  But they already are doing that where have youv being the last THREE YEARS?  ESPECIALLY ON A VIDEO GAMES SALES SITE!? 

Remeber this?  IT SOLD 22 MILLION COPYS! 



3-  If people were purely buying on price (as you claim) how do you explain the Xbox360 $199 dollar system on the market not outselling the Wii at $250?  Or Wii software selling more than games that are on MULTIPLE systems?

4- The recession is helping Nintendo?  THEY WERE ALREADY AHEAD BEFORE THE RECESSION! 

Pay attention to the post I'm replying to, its the perfect example on how NOT to post on Vgchartz, dont go to a sales site complaining about a company rolling in sales because there not doing what you want.

 

 

 

 



Ail on 07 October 2009
Dinomax said:
Dgc1808 said:
SONY is the company that takes care of the majority of my gaming needs. The Playstation Brand is arguably SONY's biggest branch and has been the backbone of their profits for many year. It wasn't until recently that they were having the profitability issues they have now.

Constantly reminding about they plan to keep each system on the market for as long as possible. Willing to lose big to establish technology for not just now but future systems. Focusing on creating new IP's each gen rather than relying on the old to carry the system. Nintendo may care more about gaming, but IMO SONY has showed just as well IF NOT MORE than Nintendo that they're in this industry for the long haul.

That's good enough for me.

Yeah, the company that develops less games, sells less both hardware and software,  acknowledges there hardware is difficult to work with,  now suddenly rushing out there secound attempt at a motion control sounds like a company that sure got its plans all worked out for the long run and whats best for the industry *sarcasm*  

To say Sony have done more now than Nintendo right now with the PS3 than Nintendo has with the Wii is just well...silly.

 

ChrisIsNotSexy said:
*sigh* Nintendo are selfish really :S,they make so much money,and still dont want to build a HD console,and theres more,it doesnt even put some decent shooters in it...Always Mario,Zelda or w/e...just make another revolutionary franchise ffs with all those money...Nintendo will always be like that,they will make consoles for profit only,without risking loosing money,or trying to actually step up gaming technology...i feel sad that is happening..Sony and Microsoft on the other hand invests in new franchises,they invest alot in a new console...people just cant seem to understand that,and they choose Nintendo just because its cheaper than...everything...those are the main reasons Nintendo are being on top atm.
I also think the crisis is helping Wii alot,without the crisis it's sales would probably be 20% less..or even more

 

1- Yeah Nintendo sure are selfish,  making a system affordable and easier to develop for, making a system that doesnt lose them billions of dollars resulting in them firing there staff or even bankrupting third partys.  Sounds like a real dick move by them.  

2-  Invest with new franchises with all that money?  But they already are doing that where have youv being the last THREE YEARS?  ESPECIALLY ON A VIDEO GAMES SALES SITE!? 

Remeber this?  IT SOLD 22 MILLION COPYS! 



3-  If people were purely buying on price (as you claim) how do you explain the Xbox360 $199 dollar system on the market not outselling the Wii at $250?  Or Wii software selling more than games that are on MULTIPLE systems?

4- The recession is helping Nintendo?  THEY WERE ALREADY AHEAD BEFORE THE RECESSION! 

Pay attention to the post I'm replying to, its the perfect example on how NOT to post on Vgchartz, dont go to a sales site complaining about a company rolling in sales because there not doing what you want.

 

 

 

 

it's amazing to see the number of customers arguing for companies to sell their product with an increased margin...

Nintendo sure as some good evangelists...



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

theRepublic on 07 October 2009

Found it. http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=85766

liquidninja said:

Note: This was in Nov 2005 shortly before the Xbox 360 was released and ergo it was before 7th generation of consoles began. So take everything he says (and displays) in that context

“Let's look at the install base for the last four generations. First thing to note: As recently as about a year ago, projections were made that the current generation would reach 60 Million household penetration: Ain't gonna happen. Ain't gonna happen. Another couple tidbits: So this chart is pure number of units sold. It doesn't take into account duplicate ownership, and doesn't take into account population growth...”

“...You overlay those two facts to get a percent population with a console in the household, and that's what it looks like. 8 Bit years, 31% of households had a gaming system. This year, where is going to end up? Somewhere between 31-32%. The growth we have seen has been driven by population growth, and by duplicate ownership.” - Reggie Fils-Aimé via Nov 2005 Nintendo Gamer's Summit

Transcription excerpts via IGN's “Reggie Talks Nintendo's Future” article (page 2): http://cube.ign.com/articles/664/664495p1.html

Actually there's a video of the exact same thing.  The video is longer so a short excerpt may be more convenient for most of you.

 



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Dinomax on 08 October 2009
Ail said:

it's amazing to see the number of customers arguing for companies to sell their product with an increased margin...

Nintendo sure as some good evangelists...

Oh please, on your bike hippy, I want good game companys to make money so they can keep making good games.  Either it be Sony or whoever you like insert here.  

Nintendo are guilty for there fuck ups also, especially the long wait to update the Wii so I can use SD cards for memory, dodgy online game service and some other stuff I havent come across but it'll most likely come up.  Yes I know third party support isnt as good rabble rabble rabble.

But to come to a sales site and complain about a company not trying anything new, when the company happens to be biggest seller of new software on the market,  also happens to fund third party development on there franchises to give there series a different take, while everyone is trying to cash in on there success. 

Or complain about a company not willing to lose money, uh news flash, none of us like to lose money so why expect a billion dollar company is suddenly willing to do so? Its the companys job to make money off video games because...well thats there job, kinda a pointless argument isnt it?

 



dharh on 08 October 2009
bdbdbd said:
@dharh: I'm not arguing about your preference in games. I have mine and you have yours. And that's fine with me.

Yes, you are getting value out of the features. And they are the features that all the current gen consoles share in common.
But, the features already existed last gen, which makes them incremental innovations this gen. Why they sucked last gen, was the bad software support. This gen has better software support for the features, so you benefit more of them.

@Ail: Raising average price of the software sold?

Lol we are talking past eachother. The Wiimote would suck for you too if the software wasn't there that you liked, just like the wiimote sucks for me since it doesn't have any software I like to support it.  And the Wii sucks for me because the software I might want to play just does not work well with the wiimote. As far as innovation is concerned, all I care about is the software innovation. The wiimote is not that innovative when you look at the pure tech side of it. Saw motion control wands back in college labs. But the fact remains that the software people apparently love comes with it.



A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.
WereKitten on 08 October 2009

@theRepublic
Thanks for finding the presentation, I was wondering about this "shrinking market" idea.

What strikes me about it:

- it's dated 2005

- I see a big difference between "household penetration" and market, and anyway the household penetration ratio seems practically constant. Even considering that multiple consoles owned inside a same household bring less software sales than the same number of consoles sold to less related customers, the absolute number of software sales are going to increase as a constant percentage of households means a growing absolute number of them.

Thus I can't really say how this translates to a "shrinking market" in any way, not hardware nor software-wise. What can be said is that it hints to a bigger potential market.

- It highly depends on how the "penetration" thing was measured, ie what constitutes a "household". What about consoles in college dorms, for example? How are they counted? Was this a poll over a pre-defined set of households, or was it made on an individual basis? I know several of my friends had a console back at parents' and a console with their house-mates where we attended university, while others only had one back home or one that they moved all the time.

- this is US only. I'm pretty sure that the penetration of 8-bit and 16-bit era consoles was lower in Europe and has seen a way greater increase in following generations, especially since the PS1 onward. No, I don't have the hard numbers, I hope every reader who was there finds this reasonable.

@bdbdbdbd...

A thought about the online gaming issue. Just as when it comes to controllers it's all about the software using them, so online is not about having a modem or an ethernet port or wifi in your consoles. But it's not even only about enabling online in your games.

Let's give credit where it's due: MS did a great job in pioneering an infrastructure.

You say that we would have online gaming anyway, but there's a quantum leap between ad-hoc per-conole solutions (and that's all Nintendo is still offering currently) and a centralized, expandable set of services offered to users. The point is not that remembering your friend code is harder than remembering your gamer id. It is that MS and Sony are offering a centralized service where the user is abstracted from the hardware console and the particular copy of the game. Or take things like voice chat: it is obvious that MS was the one who gave the biggest importance to this service, so much that it's part of the standard console software and regulated by general guidelines for all developers.

Online gaming would exist today if MS hadn't entered the scene, in the sense that you could put a tick in a feature matrix. But it wouldn't most probably be the same user-centered (and friendly) experience that I hope all consoles will manage to provide.

 



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

chocoloco on 08 October 2009

Why so serious?



BladeOfGod on 08 October 2009
Kantor said:
Khuutra said:
leo-j said:
The gaming industry was shrikning? Really now?

I think - think - that it was in relation to the growth of the overall population. I could be wrong on that point, though, as I have never seen Nintendo's presentations myself.

And people say Nintendo don't spin.

Seriously? Relative to the growth of the world's population? Considering no more than 5% of the Earth's population even play games....

for the last 30 years there have been about 1 billion consoles sold (counting Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft ATARI and SEGA sales together) so 1/6 of the Earth's population has console or handheld