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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Polls: Link vs. Cloud, Who is the Ultimate Hero? Vote Now!

Kasz216 said:
Link in many games has no personality.


I find that with a lot of Nintendo games not just with Link and I think it's part of the reason why I find it very hard to get into their games other than just in a pick up casual way.  I mean when I played Ocarina of Time the atmosphere was brilliant but Link seemed to have no personality and it was hard to identify with anyone in the game because they all seemed so one-dimensional.  Take the Mario games as well, do you ever really know what Mario is thinking or even what kind of personality he has?  Has there ever been a time in any Nintendo game in which you felt real anger or sadness like in Final Fantasy 7 with it's famous scene that shocked gamers and made them feel horrified, angry, and grief? 

I think a lot of it is because of Nintendo's philosophy of wanting their games to make people feel happy all the time they're playing them and also because they're aimed at everyone (which includes children) which makes it basically impossible to have characters with any real depth to them.



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Legend11 said:
Kasz216 said:
Link in many games has no personality.


I find that with a lot of Nintendo games not just with Link and I think it's part of the reason why I find it very hard to get into their games other than just in a pick up casual way. I mean when I played Ocarina of Time the atmosphere was brilliant but Link seemed to have no personality and it was hard to identify with anyone in the game because they all seemed so one-dimensional. Take the Mario games as well, do you ever really know what Mario is thinking or even what kind of personality he has? Has there ever been a time in any Nintendo game in which you felt real anger or sadness like in Final Fantasy 7 with it's famous scene that shocked gamers and made them feel horrified, angry, and grief?

I think a lot of it is because of Nintendo's philosophy of wanting their games to make people feel happy all the time they're playing them and also because they're aimed at everyone (which includes children) which makes it basically impossible to have characters with any real depth to them.


Really? I have always found Zeldas (Marios much less so, but as a platformer they require far less character depth) to have a sort of abstract depth to them, rather than forcing a personality on the protagonist they let you sort of propel yourself into the character. I always have found games with silent protagonists to be kind of deep on that level, as long as there is a story going on around them.

Personally I can't stand games with rigid characters because I feel like I'm not really playing a game but more prodding a very boring movie along.

I'm probably just weird like that though XD



I'm going to vote for Cloud. He's one of my favorite characters. It's about time they add Mario to one of these polls so he can kick someones ass.



Rath said:
Legend11 said:
Kasz216 said:
Link in many games has no personality.


I find that with a lot of Nintendo games not just with Link and I think it's part of the reason why I find it very hard to get into their games other than just in a pick up casual way. I mean when I played Ocarina of Time the atmosphere was brilliant but Link seemed to have no personality and it was hard to identify with anyone in the game because they all seemed so one-dimensional. Take the Mario games as well, do you ever really know what Mario is thinking or even what kind of personality he has? Has there ever been a time in any Nintendo game in which you felt real anger or sadness like in Final Fantasy 7 with it's famous scene that shocked gamers and made them feel horrified, angry, and grief?

I think a lot of it is because of Nintendo's philosophy of wanting their games to make people feel happy all the time they're playing them and also because they're aimed at everyone (which includes children) which makes it basically impossible to have characters with any real depth to them.


Really? I have always found Zeldas (Marios much less so, but as a platformer they require far less character depth) to have a sort of abstract depth to them, rather than forcing a personality on the protagonist they let you sort of propel yourself into the character. I always have found games with silent protagonists to be kind of deep on that level, as long as there is a story going on around them.

Personally I can't stand games with rigid characters because I feel like I'm not really playing a game but more prodding a very boring movie along.

I'm probably just weird like that though XD


My favorite ones are those that give you a real choice on how to play the character and where your actions influence events in the game.  For example I just finished Neverwinter Nights 2 yesterday and depending on how you played your character (good, evil, etc) some characters will treat you differently (even the ones in your party) and events can unfold differently because of your choices.

This is in contrast to many Japanese rpgs in which it feels like you have to play the character exactly the way the developers want and that it's basically just a book in which you as a reader have no say in the story.  It may be an amazing story but it's far more interesting to see how the story unfolds if the main character had made different choices.  It's true that Neverwinter Nights 2 is still a scripted game only with many different branches but it does open up the possibilities of what a game might be like in the future if all the characters have incredible AI and events literally did unfold in unscripted and unforseen ways.



Rath said:
Legend11 said:
Kasz216 said:
Link in many games has no personality.


I find that with a lot of Nintendo games not just with Link and I think it's part of the reason why I find it very hard to get into their games other than just in a pick up casual way. I mean when I played Ocarina of Time the atmosphere was brilliant but Link seemed to have no personality and it was hard to identify with anyone in the game because they all seemed so one-dimensional. Take the Mario games as well, do you ever really know what Mario is thinking or even what kind of personality he has? Has there ever been a time in any Nintendo game in which you felt real anger or sadness like in Final Fantasy 7 with it's famous scene that shocked gamers and made them feel horrified, angry, and grief?

I think a lot of it is because of Nintendo's philosophy of wanting their games to make people feel happy all the time they're playing them and also because they're aimed at everyone (which includes children) which makes it basically impossible to have characters with any real depth to them.


Really? I have always found Zeldas (Marios much less so, but as a platformer they require far less character depth) to have a sort of abstract depth to them, rather than forcing a personality on the protagonist they let you sort of propel yourself into the character. I always have found games with silent protagonists to be kind of deep on that level, as long as there is a story going on around them.

Personally I can't stand games with rigid characters because I feel like I'm not really playing a game but more prodding a very boring movie along.

I'm probably just weird like that though XD

I agree with you. Nintendo's style with their heros gave me the feeling like I was that character. I've always enjoyed the silent heroes, less talk more ass kicking. Games where the protagonists have their personalities too are great, Snake has always been an exciting character. I also agree with Legend11, where the characters are dynamic along with the world around them, like in Knights of the Old Republic, awesome game. They are all fun.

On topic...I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but since Cloud beat Sephiroth in Advent Children, he is a bigger badass than Link. Does that count?

 



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Link hasn't defeated Ganon on his own in quite a while.



Legend11 said:
Kasz216 said:
Link in many games has no personality.


I find that with a lot of Nintendo games not just with Link and I think it's part of the reason why I find it very hard to get into their games other than just in a pick up casual way.  I mean when I played Ocarina of Time the atmosphere was brilliant but Link seemed to have no personality and it was hard to identify with anyone in the game because they all seemed so one-dimensional.  Take the Mario games as well, do you ever really know what Mario is thinking or even what kind of personality he has?  Has there ever been a time in any Nintendo game in which you felt real anger or sadness like in Final Fantasy 7 with it's famous scene that shocked gamers and made them feel horrified, angry, and grief? 

I think a lot of it is because of Nintendo's philosophy of wanting their games to make people feel happy all the time they're playing them and also because they're aimed at everyone (which includes children) which makes it basically impossible to have characters with any real depth to them.


Yes.  Though to be fair that's because that scene did nothing for me.  By the time I got to it I was bored out of my mind and wondering how FF7 could be so much worse then every other square game i'd ever played. (Which were a lot, they were my favorite developer at the time.)

As for what mario's thinking.  I've always got a good idea of what he's thinking because I've seen the Super Mario Brothers Super Show.  He's constantly thinking about how awesome it would be to eat some food.  I do wonder why they don't have him talk more now that they have a voice actor for him and such, but it doesn't really bother me that much.  The only games i tend to be able to "impose" myself on are games where you get generics whose names you can change.  Cause honestly most RPG characters make the dumbest most obvious mistakes that you see a mile away. 

Also i think the reason i was never a fan of the 3-D zeldas is that I wanted a smart ass running around saying "Excccuuuuseeee ME Princess!"

Seriously though, when it comes to an RPG, if I have to choose between a lame character like cloud or a voiceless main character like Chrono from Chrono Trigger, i'll go with the voiceless guy everytime.



sieanr said:
NightStalker said:
sieanr said:
NightStalker said:
yea I am tired of ppl dissing out cloud for his emoness. you all no that you have doubts about yourself and believe you can't do things, so why diss out a video game character for being realistic. cloud went through life feeling out of place and like he was letting ppl down so of course he had inhibitions. then he grew from that and was able to bond w/ new friends and save the world. Link doesn't even talk so w/e.

I know I am taking this too seriously, but I don't care. cloud freaking owns so deal w/ it.

LOL

Oh, and this is a pole about being the "ultimate hero", so its only logical that people would rag on this character for the things that dont line up with a heroic ideal. After all, this isnt a "anti-hero who is cliched beyond belief" poll.


i should have put that in quotation marks. my point is he wasn't emo, but just like anybody else. i know what your're saying , however I am not one to be impressed by cliched heroes who don't have a life away from saving princesses. the fact that cloud came from obscurity to save a planet is more impressive that being a reincarnating elf who is oh so perfect.

Link is an archtype - keep in mind that thats not the same thing as being a cliche.

Cloud storyline isn't more impressive, its just stupid for the very reason you list. The fact that that happened is completely unrealistic, yet you applaud him for being "like us" and being beleivable. Not to mention that sort of single, unknown hero rises up to the challange is soo cliched in video games that its unbelievable (just look at every FF game or any other jrpg). Granted, this is the way most games are, and its the way Zelda is as well. However, you cant say cloud is better for essentially being like every other jrpg hero, just with a more interesting back story.


ok you're right. I just like Cloud better as a character. simple as that.