I didn't say BioWare invented it, I said they came up with using it for the first game and Obsidian took it and used it for the second game.

You don't think KoToR developed its own gameflow which was directly replayed in Jade Empire and Mass Effect. KoToR basically created a subgenre, which no game exactly duplicates, nor had before. Doesn't mean it's a "better" formula, but it's similar, and thus worthy of subgenre status.

I mean, DMC wasn't the first beat em up to have a sword, but it definitely invented a subgenre that followed it very closely right down to the color of the damn experience orbs.

It's the overall makeup of the game that is the forumla, not singlular aspects.

That's what he meant.

You mean to say they took the gameplay scenario? I see. I suppose that maks some sense, but again, the gameplay of KotOR is not really what's in question here.

Though the combat system was much improved in KotOR2, if only because of rebalanced feats and how item enhancement began to actually mean something.

I thought KoToR II sucked, but I did become too bored to beat it. Maybe I should pick it back up now that the user content is out. :P I got pretty far.

KOTOR had story, but it was extremely simple to play. It was basically Neverwinter Nights cut to a quarter of the gameplay abilities, feats, mechanics, spells, and just about everything else other than the squad combat.

However KOTOR had arguably better story, though not much more, also better and flashier graphics and the before mentioned squad system.

The most recent game which I played and enjoyed the story however was The Witcher, and lo and behold it was PC only, considering how much you can change the linear story based on choices and how you affect other people. This game should be an example of NPC interaction.

If Dragon Age gets the depth of NWN and sticks it with the story of The Witcher ad squad dynamic of KOTOR, you have one of the best RPGs ever made. Sadly I think it will play more like KOTOR and be just simplified and dumbed down with your run of the mill themes when it comes to story, mostly cause developers are wary of that stuff on console games.

I agree with you on the last point. I'm not trying to say Obsidian had no original ideas and copycatted everything. But that as well as the menus, journal layout (which I loved) is largely unchanged. To me, this was a good thing. It's hard to criticize them when they're making a sequel to a game made by another developer. I thought the influence system was great and the fact that you could tick some of your party members off and it have lasting consequences was a well executed idea that wasn't in the first game. I think they also had the more interesting cast of characters of the two games.

So yes, when I played KOTOR II I got the exact same feeling of greatness that I felt while I was playing the first game, which was a ton, as they are both probably in my top ten favorite games that I've ever played.

That is very fair, TMWNN.

Thanks! Tbh, I never have understood why the second game's legacy is living in the first's shadow or just falling by the wayside so much. I didn't think the endgame was completely terrible. I remember when it was announced, my initial reaction was "Already?" It's quite impressive that they were able to do what they did in just 15 months. I have to wonder about LucasArts with their "it has to come out now" attitude. Have they ever had a more well received Star Wars game than these two? Why not give them the full time to make the game as good as it can be?

70 hours is alot of gaming time...

I wish I knew. I was largely satisfied with what we got too, but there's a reason I'm playing the Restoration Mod right now.

Ah, but if they could have had more time....

Again: that's a big part of why I'm looking forward to Alpha Protocol, and Fallout: New Vegas after that.