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Forums - Website Topics - Website improvements - more community input

ioi said:

Next week I am going to create an "Analysis" section on the site and develop a suite of data tools - some of which will be moderator only, some only logged-in users and some open to all users. This will basically allow for the extraction and comparison of whatever data you want from the databases and will give mods / writers the tools with which to construct even more great articles and stories and allow users to copy and paste data and findings to other sites.

This could potentially be a very powerful addition to the site, so let me know what kind of things you would like to see. I'm sure some of you spend time copying and pasting the data into excel and using it to create your own graphs etc - what kind of stuff do you want? Marketshare is an obvious one, compare hardware for any specified data range, compare games, yearly increases / decreases, year-on-year changes? Give me some ideas and I'll put them into action - we have all the data here already I just want to give you guys the tools you need to be able to make the comparisons you want to make.

 Great, now I want desperately be a mod *lol*

kn said:
You could also put in a rating system where people can give "kudos" to the people that post intelligently and take away kudos from idiots. That rating would show up under their name in every post so both they and others can see it... I would help to eliminate some of the junk posts and the obvious trolling. You could even set it up such that a user could self ban by reaching a certain level of negative feedback. It would hopefully keep people from being blatant trolls...

Also, give the mods the ability to delete or at least "hide" a response. When you get something that is blatant and the user gets banned, it becomes a stain in the thread that needs to go away promptly. You could just have the mods mark them as "hidden" and let you do the actual delete so that someone doesn't go rogue on you, Ioi...

 I second all of that. Add community points. Those can be earned by activity, good posts (votes) updates to the game database.  I would also love a "metacritic" feature (game rankings). I would love a bigger (user?) news section (N4G). To keep work of the mods it would be nice if people could contribute on the bigger site without being a mod (e.g. enable reviews for the metacritic feature, writing or approving news for a bigger news section). 

 



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i don't want to sound rude or anything (this site is my daily drug when i get up at 6 am to work) but before putting any more analysis tools (which sound nice btw), is there a way to get (back?) the "total" and "compare games" sections in the american data? or is it too much of a hassle? or was it answered somewhere else and i'm just a griever?



Entroper said:

Other websites have a "karma" system similar to the kudos system you guys are talking about.

I am extremely against having that kind of system here. It would just turn into a fanboy war to see who can lower the others' reputation more.

 

Regarding the rich text editor, it sounds like deja vu because you keep dismissing the problems with it, ioi. I don't understand why it's so difficult to accept the fact that the editor has some really annoying issues.

Properly implemented kudos systems don't allow people with "bad" reps to heavily influence the rep of people with "good" reps.  They also only allow people to "rate" another person once per thread or once per week or something along those lines.  It's a difficult balance to strike, but it most certainly can be done and on every site that I've been on where it IS implemented well, it works (albeit to varying degrees).

 



I hate trolls.

Systems I currently own:  360, PS3, Wii, DS Lite (2)
Systems I've owned: PS2, PS1, Dreamcast, Saturn, 3DO, Genesis, Gamecube, N64, SNES, NES, GBA, GB, C64, Amiga, Atari 2600 and 5200, Sega Game Gear, Vectrex, Intellivision, Pong.  Yes, Pong.

Next week I am going to create an "Analysis" section on the site and develop a suite of data tools - some of which will be moderator only, some only logged-in users and some open to all users. This will basically allow for the extraction and comparison of whatever data you want from the databases and will give mods / writers the tools with which to construct even more great articles and stories and allow users to copy and paste data and findings to other sites.

This could potentially be a very powerful addition to the site

I cannot possibly think of a better way to spend your time.  You will reap major rewards for a comprehensive analysis system...  It will drive traffic to your site like mad.

-I want to see any result in both graph and table format.  I want a link to embed it and be able to put it on any site, inluding this one, for reference.

-I want to be able to compare any console to any other console for my open specified time interval.  See my first comment about results.

-I want to be able to get total sales with weekly and monthly for a single or multiple consoles.  See my first comment about results.  For example:  Tell me how the 360 sold from March 1 to April 31 in Europe/others in total and with the option of weekly and monthly data as well.  Again, graph and table format.

This is just hardware, of course, but software should have similar functionality.  How did Halo 2 sell in it's first 90 days and how did it compare to Halo 3?  I need to be able to specify a time interval for each game and again, weekly/monthly sales.  Being able to add a third category would be swell.  Imagine adding hardware week/month/total sales analysis side by side with launches of software?  I.e. how did halo 2 bump hardware compared to how halo 3 bumped hardware for the same time period -- 30 days from release of the game?

These are but just a few examples, but some good ones I think.

And, IOI, just for grins and for this absolutely prophetic offering of advice (yeah, I'm laying it on thick), I think you should make me a general mod.  I love to do statistical analysis and have been frustrated about having to pull numbers week by week and pasting them into excel to get what I want. 



I hate trolls.

Systems I currently own:  360, PS3, Wii, DS Lite (2)
Systems I've owned: PS2, PS1, Dreamcast, Saturn, 3DO, Genesis, Gamecube, N64, SNES, NES, GBA, GB, C64, Amiga, Atari 2600 and 5200, Sega Game Gear, Vectrex, Intellivision, Pong.  Yes, Pong.


I think a system for rating posts, over a rating users would be better. If I want to skim a thread with 100 posts, I only want to read the best responses. I do not care who wrote them.

How about a schedule on the front page for when you expect number to come in for different regions, or news to be posted? (NPD, etc) That seems to be a common question for most new visitors.

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kn said:
Entroper said:

Other websites have a "karma" system similar to the kudos system you guys are talking about.

I am extremely against having that kind of system here. It would just turn into a fanboy war to see who can lower the others' reputation more.

 

Regarding the rich text editor, it sounds like deja vu because you keep dismissing the problems with it, ioi. I don't understand why it's so difficult to accept the fact that the editor has some really annoying issues.

Properly implemented kudos systems don't allow people with "bad" reps to heavily influence the rep of people with "good" reps. They also only allow people to "rate" another person once per thread or once per week or something along those lines. It's a difficult balance to strike, but it most certainly can be done and on every site that I've been on where it IS implemented well, it works (albeit to varying degrees).

 


 Every site I've been on that uses Karma the system works horribly and I think it would be like that on this site too.  In theory, if you have a bunch of rational responsible posters a karma system should work, but we don't (myself included at times >_>).  Just look at the top rated games section, that doesn't matter in the least and you have people complaining about the score.  

The actual problem we would have is that other than people complaining about themselves being karma camped, people would have sock puppets or dummy accounts.  The sock puppets would be used to boost their own score, make controversial posts because they don't want their score lowered, and spam rate downs on people they just don't like.

If we did something like Digg where we can rate posts the same exact thing would happen.  Certain peopel would get camped by sock puppets (how many people want to shut Soriku up?) and they would boost their own posts up.  Like I said, in theory a karma system is great, but it just doesn't work.  People take it too seriously and we will have at least 5 threads a day complaining about the karma system and how they are being picked on. 



twesterm said:

Every site I've been on that uses Karma the system works horribly and I think it would be like that on this site too. In theory, if you have a bunch of rational responsible posters a karma system should work, but we don't (myself included at times >_>). Just look at the top rated games section, that doesn't matter in the least and you have people complaining about the score.

The actual problem we would have is that other than people complaining about themselves being karma camped, people would have sock puppets or dummy accounts. The sock puppets would be used to boost their own score, make controversial posts because they don't want their score lowered, and spam rate downs on people they just don't like.

If we did something like Digg where we can rate posts the same exact thing would happen. Certain peopel would get camped by sock puppets (how many people want to shut Soriku up?) and they would boost their own posts up. Like I said, in theory a karma system is great, but it just doesn't work. People take it too seriously and we will have at least 5 threads a day complaining about the karma system and how they are being picked on.

It is working on SE. It is simple to get such a system to work: It have to cost you something to give somebody else a up or down. Doing such bombs would hurt you as much as would hurt him.

 



More detailed weekly data for europe/others like we have for NA and Japan would be nice...but I know it would take an increadible amount of work to get it right (if it's even possible at all...).



Just_Ben said:
twesterm said:

Every site I've been on that uses Karma the system works horribly and I think it would be like that on this site too. In theory, if you have a bunch of rational responsible posters a karma system should work, but we don't (myself included at times >_>). Just look at the top rated games section, that doesn't matter in the least and you have people complaining about the score.

The actual problem we would have is that other than people complaining about themselves being karma camped, people would have sock puppets or dummy accounts. The sock puppets would be used to boost their own score, make controversial posts because they don't want their score lowered, and spam rate downs on people they just don't like.

If we did something like Digg where we can rate posts the same exact thing would happen. Certain peopel would get camped by sock puppets (how many people want to shut Soriku up?) and they would boost their own posts up. Like I said, in theory a karma system is great, but it just doesn't work. People take it too seriously and we will have at least 5 threads a day complaining about the karma system and how they are being picked on.

It is working on SE. It is simple to get such a system to work: It have to cost you something to give somebody else a up or down. Doing such bombs would hurt you as much as would hurt him.

 


 Not sure what the SE forums are but the cost thing sounds like it would work better.  My only problem with the cost thing is I hate systems but that's only a personal thing.  They're always needlessly complicated to implement and use and they are rarely worth the time.



kn said:
Entroper said:

Other websites have a "karma" system similar to the kudos system you guys are talking about.

I am extremely against having that kind of system here. It would just turn into a fanboy war to see who can lower the others' reputation more.

 

Regarding the rich text editor, it sounds like deja vu because you keep dismissing the problems with it, ioi. I don't understand why it's so difficult to accept the fact that the editor has some really annoying issues.

Properly implemented kudos systems don't allow people with "bad" reps to heavily influence the rep of people with "good" reps. They also only allow people to "rate" another person once per thread or once per week or something along those lines. It's a difficult balance to strike, but it most certainly can be done and on every site that I've been on where it IS implemented well, it works (albeit to varying degrees).

 


All that means is that the first "side" to gain an advantage in the "rep war" will hold it indefinitely, since the losing side can't vote as often.