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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Sales numbers are not always indicative of a game's quality.

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While it's is true that sales don't encessarily equal quality, it is possible for a game to be good and get good sales.  Halo is an example of this. 



Alterego-X said:
dougsdad0629 said:

I've seen a lot of people talk about how quickly ODST outsold Killzone 2, however a quick search on this site will yield you many examples of how sales numbers do not directly reflect a game's quality.  Mediocre games such as Wii Music (2.62 million) and Sonic and the Secret Rings (2.06 million) are just a couple of examples.  Let's go in the other direction.  An outstanding title such as Boom Blox hasn't even cracked a million.  I used Wii games as examples because the Wii is full of mediocre titles with huge sales and outstanding titles with lousy sales.  Don't judge a game based on sales numbers.  ODST outsold Killzone 2 in 24 hrs.?  So what!  I'm not saying ODST is mediocre.  I've read several positive reviews.  I'm just saying play Killzone 2 before you judge.

I have to disagree. 

While it is impossible to perfectly determine a game's objective quality, sales might be the closest we might get to it. 

 

You say Wii Music is "mediocre" and Boom Box is "outstanding". What is your proof for that? Your personal taste. Preference. Opinion. Subjectivity. This is of course important, when you want enjoy a game for yourself. But not when you want to defend its objective "quality".

 

Look at it from an outsider, unbiased point of view:

Some guy tells a joke. No one laughs.

A second guy tells another joke. A girl laughs loudly, and some others are smiling.

A third guy tells a third joke. The crowd erupts in laughter, they tell it to everyone they know, someone writes it on the Internet, and it becomes a famous meme. 

Which joke was the funniest? Of course the one that the entire planet found funny. After all, we, the overall population, define the terms, decide what words mean. 

Of course, in case of gaming, there are some factors that make it less clear. For example, obviously different genres have different standard. The best ice cream doesn't have "more quality" than the best movie, it is apples to oranges. 

Also, "sales" doesn't directly mean "popularity", because marketing, and some other things might manipulate that somehow.

But we can still safely say that no random fad, or powerful marketing could sell millions of copies of anything that everyone hates, and if a games is appealing to the masses, it will find its way.

 

 

Your joke similitude doesn't hold for a simple reason: sales don't equate to the enjoyment the buyers had from a game, even if you were to take that as a candidate measure of quality. Most game sales happen without the buyer having tried the game first, thus the satisfaction with the product is statistically unknown. Let alone things like immediate satisfaction versus long-term satisfaction, or value perception a posteriori. None of which applies to a joke.

Some games are cult hits even with poor sales because the little audience they gathered is very vocal about their perceived quality. Others sell well over time because of word of mouth which once again is rooted in user satisfaction. And others sell well but are rubbish. Maybe well-marketed, maybe sporting some popular icon, maybe appealing for people who don't look for much quality, and yet still rubbish.

Just as a fever might make you perform blood tests looking for an infection, but might end up being caused by something else entirely, so sales can suggest that there's the chance of great quality, which deserves better examination. But there's no strict correlation between the symptom and a single possible cause.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

WereKitten said:
Alterego-X said:
dougsdad0629 said:

I've seen a lot of people talk about how quickly ODST outsold Killzone 2, however a quick search on this site will yield you many examples of how sales numbers do not directly reflect a game's quality.  Mediocre games such as Wii Music (2.62 million) and Sonic and the Secret Rings (2.06 million) are just a couple of examples.  Let's go in the other direction.  An outstanding title such as Boom Blox hasn't even cracked a million.  I used Wii games as examples because the Wii is full of mediocre titles with huge sales and outstanding titles with lousy sales.  Don't judge a game based on sales numbers.  ODST outsold Killzone 2 in 24 hrs.?  So what!  I'm not saying ODST is mediocre.  I've read several positive reviews.  I'm just saying play Killzone 2 before you judge.

I have to disagree. 

While it is impossible to perfectly determine a game's objective quality, sales might be the closest we might get to it. 

 

You say Wii Music is "mediocre" and Boom Box is "outstanding". What is your proof for that? Your personal taste. Preference. Opinion. Subjectivity. This is of course important, when you want enjoy a game for yourself. But not when you want to defend its objective "quality".

 

Look at it from an outsider, unbiased point of view:

Some guy tells a joke. No one laughs.

A second guy tells another joke. A girl laughs loudly, and some others are smiling.

A third guy tells a third joke. The crowd erupts in laughter, they tell it to everyone they know, someone writes it on the Internet, and it becomes a famous meme. 

Which joke was the funniest? Of course the one that the entire planet found funny. After all, we, the overall population, define the terms, decide what words mean. 

Of course, in case of gaming, there are some factors that make it less clear. For example, obviously different genres have different standard. The best ice cream doesn't have "more quality" than the best movie, it is apples to oranges. 

Also, "sales" doesn't directly mean "popularity", because marketing, and some other things might manipulate that somehow.

But we can still safely say that no random fad, or powerful marketing could sell millions of copies of anything that everyone hates, and if a games is appealing to the masses, it will find its way.

 

 

Your joke similitude doesn't hold for a simple reason: sales don't equate to the enjoyment the buyers had from a game, even if you were to take that as a candidate measure of quality. Most game sales happen without the buyer having tried the game first, thus the satisfaction with the product is statistically unknown.

Some games are cult hits even with poor sales because the little audience they gathered is very vocal about their perceived quality. Others sell well over time because of word of mouth which once again is rooted in user satisfaction. And others sell well but are rubbish. Maybe well-marketed, maybe sporting some popular icon, maybe appealing for people who don't look for much quality, and yet still rubbish.

Just as a fever might make you perform blood tests looking for an infection, but might end up being caused by something else entirely, so sales can suggest that there's the chance of great quality, which deserves better examination. But there's no strict correlation between symptom and a single possible cause.

Very well said.



WereKitten said:

Your joke similitude doesn't hold for a simple reason: sales don't equate to the enjoyment the buyers had from a game, even if you were to take that as a candidate measure of quality. Most game sales happen without the buyer having tried the game first, thus the satisfaction with the product is statistically unknown. Let alone things like immediate satisfaction versus long-term satisfaction, or value perception a posteriori. None of which applies to a joke.

Some games are cult hits even with poor sales because the little audience they gathered is very vocal about their perceived quality. Others sell well over time because of word of mouth which once again is rooted in user satisfaction. And others sell well but are rubbish. Maybe well-marketed, maybe sporting some popular icon, maybe appealing for people who don't look for much quality, and yet still rubbish.

Just as a fever might make you perform blood tests looking for an infection, but might end up being caused by something else entirely, so sales can suggest that there's the chance of great quality, which deserves better examination. But there's no strict correlation between the symptom and a single possible cause.

While I agree that there ARE cases of unsatisfied customers, (obviously), I think you seriously underestimate the power of word of mouth. 

 

Wii Music would be a good example. Nintendo clearly expected it to be the next Wii Fit, and it was marketed as such. Yet, people decided that it isn't good enough to keep playing with it every day, telling about it to everyone, etc., as they did with Wii Fit. Maybe it was the content, the gameplay, the theme, I don't know. 

A contrary example would be The Sims, that was a minor project at Maxis, with almost zero expectations, after the team got run out of ideas with a dozen mediocre "Sim" games. But for some reason, it became the best selling PC game ever.

Of course, saying that a cult classic is a bad game because only a small minority of 100 million gamers bought it, would be like saying that The Sims is bad because only a small minority of Earth's population bought it. It doesn't matter. The rest is a not the market. Its the same as what I said about comparing genres. 

For example, The Path is full of deep symbolism. You could say, that even though it only sold a few thousand, it did remarkably well for a game in the tiny "deep symbolism genre", and its market.

 

ps.: "people who don't look for much quality" is nonsense, of course everyone is looking for some sort of quality, as "quality" basically means "good", maybe just from different perspectives. 



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^
Still, word of mouth bringing people over the threshold of buying or watching or reading something doesn't indicate that if you took a sample of random people and showed them the product, they would judge it positively. It only indicates a vocal reaction, which is also common to fads, fashions, urban legends and conspiracy theories. If a meme spreads, it's because it is fit to its goal of spreading, not because it's particularly true, deep or meaningful.

Plus, by arbitrarily redefining markets, you deprive the sales of any power of indicating quality because you break comparison. The Path did well for a game in the "deep symbolism genre" compared to what else? And let's say that there's another game that sold worse because it was not reviewed on destructoid. Did it sell well in the "deep symbolistic game not reviewed on destructoid" subcategory? Maybe relatively better than The Path in its genre?

Going back to the OP: are KZ2's sales indicative that it appeals a randomly chosen "virgin" gamer less than Halo 3, or did it sell very well in the "not very arcade-y console FPSs with no estabilished prior community" market sector? While I call them mixed and intertwined causes for sales besides intrinsic qualities of the product, you're quite fuzzy in what you sweep under the carpet of market subdivision and what not.

And btw: "people who don't look for much quality" is a very real case. Just as many DVDs are quickly grabbed from the shelves with the goal of keeping the kids busy while you have dinner with friends, there are games that are bought with no real regard for its quality. "I only want something the kids can play next friday at my daughter's birthday party" has been said to clerks all over the world uncountable times.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

WereKitten said:

^

And btw: "people who don't look for much quality" is a very real case. Just as many DVDs are quickly grabbed from the shelves with the goal of keeping the kids busy while you have dinner with friends, there are games that are bought with no real regard for its quality. "I only want something the kids can play next friday at my daughter's birthday party" has been said to clerks all over the world uncountable times.

That's very true.  Parents buying video games for their children are the perfect example.  For the most part their objective is to buy games for their kids to keep them busy or as gifts during holidays and special occasions.  I highly doubt they do extensive research on the quality of the games they purchase. 



Carl2291 said:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/obvious

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hilarious



Yeah well i enjoy most games that sell well, but that's just me.



 

   PROUD MEMBER OF THE PLAYSTATION 3 : RPG FAN CLUB

 

You need to add a subscript to this topic:

Review scores are not always indicative of a game's quality.



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