Wow, I've had a lot of great responses to my last post, and honestly, I didn't think that you guys stood a chance. I know that shio spends his existance arguing this, but I'm really quite convincing on this subject, and the fact that you were able to form decent argument has vastly impressed me.
Of course, being just one man, I can't respond to everyone, so let me throw you a few talking points as I come to them, and see if you have anything worth mentioning as a reply.
A. Senlis, you are dead wrong about one thing. Dependability is a problem with all hardware. Nothing lasts forever, and I don't care how you want to argue it, any PC part has the potential for mass market defect, just like a console part. I don't understand the miscommunication. Think about it. Consoles, however, have between 1 and 3 year warranties, while built computers don't have a warranty.
B. Also, IMHO, the "you can build X computer for X dollars in theory" argument is as old as dirt. It's not true. If you build a computer, be prepared to spend over 500 dollars on it. Otherwise, you will be running new HD games on medium with fluctuating stats in almost every case. People who really build computers, spend between 800 and 2000 dollars per build. Just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean you should. Shit begats shit. I mean, shit, how much did you spend?
C. Senlis, no controlling options is ever factually superior to another. It can't be. Some people prefer a joystick no matter what. They never learned to play with a mouse and keyboard. More accuracy does not equal "better" in everyones eyes, and some people would prefer the controls of The Conduit to a mouse and keyboard, because they are more intuitive. Let me reitterate, opinions are subjective, and that is the only fact in this argument. Again, please, look up the term "better" and then look up the term "subjective." You are wrong, sir, and you should admit it. Besides those things, I think we agree.
@noname2200
D. You're right, every problem can be fixed.
E. Natal, and Sony's wand are going to fail, probably. That wasn't my point. My point is that the PC won't have those types of things. There are no first party companies who would be interested in introducing them, except maybe Microsoft, and they will never get the support they get on a console, due to userbase and inability to introduce at launch.
F. Those terms are, imo, buzzphrases, intended to add to the PC superiority list. It seems that some people(maybe not you) think the PC is SO superior, that it is laughable to compare it to a console. Truth is, the console is a great platform for most core gamers, and in fact, it's a question of taste, which platform is better, and the consoles do have quite a few superiorities over the PC, despite PC elitist rhetoric. Still, "best" is subjective.
G. The used market for PC games has been nearly killed due to DRM. you can still fish out a few, but again, I never pay more than 20 dollars for a game, and if I would need to, I rent them, infinately, for 12 dollars a month, via gamefly. It saves me tons of money, and its lack is NOT made up for by the whims of steam. This is an advantage of the console market, and you should all acknowledge it.
H. The "myth" about PC gamings pricetag has a basis in fact, and trying to debunk it is boardering on spin. Just because you can buy the cheapest shit available and come out under 500 dollars in certain circumstances, doesn't give the PC a rental market, and it doesn't give the PC a viable used market. The PS360 will play any game released in the next 5 years, for the consoles with no upgrades.
I. You wouln't pay less. The 360 is 199, about what you'd pay for Windows 7.
J. You CAN buy games used in very few instances, but you can also play with usermade content on LBP. Doesn't mean I can claim that consoles have user made content.
K. Sorry I used an anecdote. It wasn't supposed to be "evidence."
L. Your anecdotes aren't evidence either. You can't have it both ways. Either a computer is cheap and you BUILD it, or it's expensive, and you have it built for you. How is this not true? Link me the prebuilt cheap computer that will play Conviction.
M. Thanks for posting. I read it all.
@shio
N. You can't prove that something is better than something else, because you can't accurately describe what it is better than that something else is, AT. For instance, if I prefer accurate controls for fighting games, the mouse sucks. If I prefer 3rd person perspective on a shooter, I might say the Wii Mote is my favorite. It is ALL subjective, and your assertion that it is not, invalidates you as a poster.
O. Typos, I make them alot.
P. What games does the PC support with motion controls?
Q. PC games aren't far cheaper than console games. That's bogus. I can rent a console game for virtually nothing, beat it, and return it. I still have to pay 20-40 bucks on steam for real games, like Fallout 3. I'm not talking about penny-annie arcade games, shio. I'm talking about how I can buy LPB for 10 dollars on ebay, or MGS4 for 11 dollars, and I still pay 40 dollars for F.E.A.R. 2. Your "PC games are cheap" argument, refutes the free market, and is wrong. You might pay more for XBLA games, than steam games, but in general, you can play consoles games for almost nothing, and PC games, despite launching at a cheaper price, are still not subject to what I'm WILLING TO PAY, BUT RATHER WHAT THE COMPANY WHO SELLS THEM IS WILLING TO CHARGE. Get it right.
R. XBLA games are cheap on computer, because no one would pay for them if they weren't.
S.
Console exclusive list copied and pasted(NOT researched by Zenfoldor):
-God of War 3
-GT5
-AGENT
-Demon Souls
-MAG
-Quantum (Gears rip off but looks better)
-Final Fantasy 13 Versus
-Heavy Rain
-Twisted Metal
-Modnation Racers
-The Last Guardian
-Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2
-White Knight Chronicles
-Yakuza 3
-WarDevil: Enigma
-Halo Reach
-Fable 3
-Gears of War 3
-Mass Effect 2
-Splinter Cell: Conviction
-Alan Wake
-Crackdown 2
-Kingdom Under Fire II
-The Secret World
-Champions Online
-APB
-Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures
-Joy Ride
-Mario Galaxy 2
-New Zelda game?
- GT5
- Forza 3
Equally quick search.
And in the PC's corner we have a bunch of MMOs, expansions, and Starcraft 2. Again, you have Blizzard. 2 games a generation.
List wars suck. Let's not continue. That said, my list only goes up to 2010, and many, many more console exclusives will release, besides the ones I've mentioned.
S. Despite your fanaticism, I'm probably much better than you at building and maintaining PCs due to my profession. My PC was top of the line a year ago at 800 bucks, and then, quad cores weren't really necessary or even supported by gaming. You forget than GTAIV is a CPU heavy game. Despite an excellent graphics card, without the CPU, you will catch shudder.
T. GTA4 was also 15 dollars, not eight hundred and 15 dollars. Plus they work at launch. Also, again, your only argument is graphics. You need to realize that without graphics, there is no argument. You play a lot of user generated content for GTAIV, on your requesite quad core cpu?
U. Dude, DRM is still a problem. Cherrypicking.
V. No, the PC doesn't need splitscreen, because playing splitscreen games on a 23 inch monitor sucks. Also, it doesn't have splitscreen, because the audience is limited for that feature, and it would be too complex to impliment on non-uniform hardware. It also doesn't have cross game achievements, because of non-uniform hardware. Non-uniform hardware has its disadvantages. Do you deny that it has any?
W. Yes, the PC has plug and play, if you mean, you have to plug all the pieces together from scratch, plug the Vista disc into the drive and install it, plug the monitor into the computer, plug the power supply cables in, order the shit off newegg, buy the parts individually, and plug a guy into your assembly process who has at least a year experience building the bastards. Yes, it's plug and play. Or it's 1000 dollars prebuilt. Either way.
X. The fact that consoles don't require you to do anything, ever, is a positive, btw. Don't know if you realized that one, sir?
Y. Console improvements are shown at the start of each generation. They are vast and all encompassing. I don't know which one is improving quicker, but I know which one I prefer.
Z. Piracy was a major detriment to PC gaming, and saw many games not only leave the platform, but major companies go multiplat. Most exclusives now require either harsh DRM or prerequesite online signins. Pretending that piracy wasn't on the cusp of overwhelming PC developers without the resources to present some sort of DRM, is a fallacy. You've called a lot of developers idiots, or lazy because the say the same thing I'm saying, but in reality, they know a lot more about it, and are a lot less bias than you are. I think Valve, at least, would agree with me. They hate consoles, but they sure as hell release their games on the Xbox 360. Why? Piracy.
...but maybe you're right. Maybe the 360 is so much more important to gaming, that the RRoD was a bigger problem in the videogame industry than was PC piracy.
If console gaming died tomorrow, what do you think would happen to the core games being developed? Increase in amount, or decrease?
If PC gaming died tomorrow, how would it affect consoles?
/bow
(Former) Lead Moderator
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