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Forums - Gaming - Gabe Newell says the PS3 is a waste of everybody's time

prlatino86 said:
Heres a list of multithreaded games:

Age of Empires III
Black & White 2
Call of Duty 2
City of Villains
WOW
TES4:Oblivion
Bioshock
GRAW1+2
Supreme Commander
Quake 4(with update)
Doom3
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Microsoft Flight Sim X
Rainbow Six: Vegas
Stranglehold

This is just to name a few.

Is that why the Quad Core is slower than a Dual core? CPU limited... Dual core is faster than Quad core... That's multi-threading at it's finest! The more threads, the slower!

I just want to point out, that most games are multi-threaded, but the 90% of the power is always on 1 thread, then the other 10% gets distributed around elsewhere. That's the way (almost) all PC games are made. There are a few exceptions, and I'm sure BioShock is true MultiThread, but it's a 360 port, which is a multi-threaded conosle. 



PSN ID: Kwaad


I fly this flag in victory!

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leo-j said:
@Kwaad

No its nowhere near bias, the BEST experience IS ON THE PS3. Motion sensing, great online, music,game downloads, blu-ray playback, pictures etc.. The wii cant do most of the things the ps3 can do, and the 360 doesnt have half of the feateres the ps3 has.(By experience Im NO TALKING ABOUT ACTual games just which one is more enjoyable with just one game..)

 Worded like that, Then I have to agree. The 'WarHawk' Experience, is... unique. And very superb.



PSN ID: Kwaad


I fly this flag in victory!

leo-j said:
Im tired of developers and ther B$, Sony made there SYSTEM they know what its capable off. PC GAMING IS A WASTE OF TIME(sorry pc gamers) It just is, WTF are you doing with barely any games. PS3 is THE BEST EXPERIENCE YOU CAN GET.

PC= Microsoft.

Well now, is it just me or has Leo-js post been getting angrier and angrier as of late.

Its like you've pasted a line where you just get really pissed off and irrational anytime something bad about the PS3 is mentioned. What the hell is wrong with you?

Oh, and LOL @ the irony of a PS3 fan criticizing another platform for lack of games.

(I think leo has lost all hope for the PS3, and is over compensating)



Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

ssj12 said: Player specific decoders are nothing more than specialized GPUs. Gran Turismo is the trust driving simulator of them all. 

"Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away" 

LOL at Leo



Kwaad said:
prlatino86 said:
Heres a list of multithreaded games:

Age of Empires III
Black & White 2
Call of Duty 2
City of Villains
WOW
TES4:Oblivion
Bioshock
GRAW1+2
Supreme Commander
Quake 4(with update)
Doom3
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Microsoft Flight Sim X
Rainbow Six: Vegas
Stranglehold

This is just to name a few.

Is that why the Quad Core is slower than a Dual core? CPU limited... Dual core is faster than Quad core... That's multi-threading at it's finest! The more threads, the slower!

I just want to point out, that most games are multi-threaded, but the 90% of the power is always on 1 thread, then the other 10% gets distributed around elsewhere. That's the way (almost) all PC games are made. There are a few exceptions, and I'm sure BioShock is true MultiThread, but it's a 360 port, which is a multi-threaded conosle.

no, they are true multithreaded, most of them.  ive seen a few benchmarks for some of these games, showing that on even with a slower processing speed, but multicore CPU, they still run significantly faster/better.

 



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Kwaad said:

First of all, this is the one guy on the market I hate. I'm sorry, but I feel he does more harm to the market than good. HL2. Great game. (when it came out) Next gen graphics? Hell no, it ran on a DX7 backbone, with DX8 and 9 shader layers added on top. The lack of bump-mapping on most objects reallyed showed the archaic techonology used in the engine. (hey, it would work on my 6 year old computer, flawless, when it came out tho)

I'm sorry, but here's all I got to say.

PC game developers HATE multithreads. Not to mention, Partial-threads, that scale, real time. I bet he REALLY hates the new processors comming to the market. 2, 4, and then 8 and 16 on the horizon. OH NO, THREADS!!! AHHH!!! BAD!!! NOOO~~ New PCs are BAAAD... Must... Use... Old... P4s... must... make... intel... continue... production!!! Make... Microsoft, Re-Create the Original x-Box... Multithreads bad... noo... everything... has... multithreads!! AAAAAAAAAHHHHHH *goes into fetal position in corner*

Sorry, but the PS3 isnt very diffrent from a 'next gen' computer. Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying identical. But multithreads are the future, and the entire game industry is based around, 1 VERY fast thread. To add more threads, turns their world upside down.

I'm not even gonna say how fast the PS3 is when optimized.

Everyone HATES the PS2. It is a hardware failure. Even though it somehow produced FF12 graphics!!! The hardware was slow, and impossible to program for. Yet, FF12 came to the PS2. 


I'm sorry, but here's all I got to say. 

Oh Kwaad; how you haven't changed... still not reading things your posting about. 

For starters, Gabe talks about multi-threads in that link and how they are adapting. From what he says in the article, they sound quite excited about the possibilities but he does admit that its a bit of a bigger challenge than what they've done before. But nowhere is he crying in a corner - part of some sort of melodramatic PS3 fans wet dream.

And give me a break, the Cell is not that similar to a multicore X86. Sure, you can simplify it all you want to try and wrap your head around it, but its just not the same. Those little SPEs are a completely different ballgame, and its something you can't just learn overnight. Not only that, but its not something you can learn and then transfer to PC development, or any other platform. Basically, your learning to program in a different way just for the PS3, a system with a very small install base. Thats what I'd call brilliant from a technical perspective.

 

BTW, at the time HL2 came out, there is no way in hell you had a 6 year old PC that could "run it fine". For starters, it required DX7, meaning at the very oldest the PC would be about 4 years old. How I miss your exaggerations...        



Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

ssj12 said: Player specific decoders are nothing more than specialized GPUs. Gran Turismo is the trust driving simulator of them all. 

"Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away" 

I'd just like to say...those that bash the PC for being expensive or whatever typically don't know what the hell they're talking about. Most PC gamers are willing to spend more anyway, because it's not just a gaming machine...I wouldn't pay more than $300 for a simple gaming machine...paying $800 makes sense to me, because I use my PC for everything...all the many tasks it can handle...as well as play games.

And trust me, internet capabilities are much farther behind the PC than some console gamers try to make you believe. The ability to download anything, most of which is free...that's very important to me.



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Bet with disolitude: Left4Dead will have a higher Metacritic rating than Project Origin, 3 months after the second game's release.  (hasn't been 3 months but it looks like I won :-p )

Kwaad said:
NJ5 said:

Kwaad, all developers would prefer to program without being forced to use threads. And they would especially prefer to not program on asymmetric architectures as the Cell is... Seriously, Sony took something which is already hard and made it even harder to work with on the PS3.

For that and other reasons (e.g. bad tools and APIs, too much memory overhead from PS3's OS), don't be surprised to continue seeing developers watering down PS3 ports until the PS3 builds a decent userbase (if ever).

 


Yup, more or less what I said... you just said it a bit more technical.



No it isn't... You were talking about PC developers, my statement was for all developers. Give a developer a fast enough single core processor and (s)he'll do anything with it. If threading is needed, it can be used anyway. But if you're forced to use multithreading, you're automatically losing in computing power and ease of programming. The only reason multicore exists is because it's harder and harder for hardware makers to make fast cores.

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

sieanr said:
NJ5 said:
ssj12 said:
Avalach21 said:
vizunary said:
he's known to be a sony hater anyways... what did you expect?

He wasn't a Sony hater until he tried to develop a PS3 game. This isn't just mindless fanboyism - This is one of the most highly regarded developers in the industry having hands on experience with the console and telling us how he feels about it.

He's a PC game maker. If anything, he should sorta see eye to eye with the Sony philosophy...


he hated the PS2's design too.


I think everyone hated PS2's design, they just had to go along with it because it was so successful...

 


This is true. Gabe has also hated on the 360, DX10 and vista, so feel free to cliam hes biased.


 Can we all jusrt claim he is an idiot. He also hates dual core processors too btw.



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leo-j said:
Im tired of developers and ther B$, Sony made there SYSTEM they know what its capable off. PC GAMING IS A WASTE OF TIME(sorry pc gamers) It just is, WTF are you doing with barely any games. PS3 is THE BEST EXPERIENCE YOU CAN GET.

PC= Microsoft.

 Alright Leo-j... time to fess up about your Wii secret... ;)



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