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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Gabe Newell says the PS3 is a waste of everybody's time

NJ5 on 11 October 2007

Kwaad, all developers would prefer to program without being forced to use threads. And they would especially prefer to not program on asymmetric architectures as the Cell is... Seriously, Sony took something which is already hard and made it even harder to work with on the PS3.

For that and other reasons (e.g. bad tools and APIs, too much memory overhead from PS3's OS), don't be surprised to continue seeing developers watering down PS3 ports until the PS3 builds a decent userbase (if ever).

 



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prlatino86 on 11 October 2007
Kwaad said:
prlatino86 said:
Duckaluck said:
well this isn't the first time he opened his month on the PS3. He spoke to GameInformer about a year ago and say the same thing.

Coming from a former MS employee, I'm not surprised.

Yeah, its cuz hes biased. I mean, him also going out saying DX10 and vista are a waste of time are just a ploy to make him look like he really isnt biased when he does in fact try to talk crap about the ps3, yeah. Not to mention, he hated the damn x360 before also.

Read the full interview rather then saying hes biased for microsoft, cuz in that same interview he mentions his original dislike for the x360. Only reason hes into it now is because developing for it is similar to developing for a pc.

 

@Mars. Do you realise how difficult it is to develop for PCs? Developing for consoles in a way is easy compared to PCs, cuz no matter what, the system is always going to be the same specs and hardware, hence ur working with only one setup.

PC on the other hand, you have to develop a game to be able to work and support hundreds of different types of computer setups and combinations. A console has one setup, and its not hard to know exactly how every part of the system is going to react to the other. PCs, u got to deal with setups that each have differing GPUs, CPUs, MOBOs, differing Bios setups and what not. You got to try and make sure its going to work for all that.


Ehhh.. 1 thread. One video wrapper file per graphics line. (one for nvidia, ATI, and Intel)

That's hard. Let's look at the PS3.

2-20 threads. With a AI system required to 'scale' the load.

Comptuers are easy.


 Umm, when was the last time you tried to buy a CPU?  in fact for the past couple of years AMD and Intel have been pushing out multicore processers.  Even before that, a lot of P4s had Hyperthreading tech, essentially running multiple threads on a single core.  (Well, sort of.)  Intel and AMD are already coming out with Quad Cores.  So, where the hell is this 1 thread thing your talking about?  Hence the reason for GN likes the X360 now,( read entire article) because PCs are also now multicore, multi thread. Yeah, in fact, multicore is old news with processors, theyve been out for a while now.  Hell, my father has a 2 year old computer, its running a Pentium Core Duo (multicore).  



Kwaad on 11 October 2007
Girl Gamer Elite said:
mesoteto said:

@GAMER GIRL--if you were you proably would be saying how great sony is as you cash an "incentive" check they wrote you

 

EDIT:


English speak it you don't?


 trying to say sony is paying you. And totally killed that meaning tho.



PSN ID: Kwaad


I fly this flag in victory!

Kwaad on 11 October 2007
prlatino86 said:
Kwaad said:
prlatino86 said:
Duckaluck said:
well this isn't the first time he opened his month on the PS3. He spoke to GameInformer about a year ago and say the same thing.

Coming from a former MS employee, I'm not surprised.

Yeah, its cuz hes biased. I mean, him also going out saying DX10 and vista are a waste of time are just a ploy to make him look like he really isnt biased when he does in fact try to talk crap about the ps3, yeah. Not to mention, he hated the damn x360 before also.

Read the full interview rather then saying hes biased for microsoft, cuz in that same interview he mentions his original dislike for the x360. Only reason hes into it now is because developing for it is similar to developing for a pc.

 

@Mars. Do you realise how difficult it is to develop for PCs? Developing for consoles in a way is easy compared to PCs, cuz no matter what, the system is always going to be the same specs and hardware, hence ur working with only one setup.

PC on the other hand, you have to develop a game to be able to work and support hundreds of different types of computer setups and combinations. A console has one setup, and its not hard to know exactly how every part of the system is going to react to the other. PCs, u got to deal with setups that each have differing GPUs, CPUs, MOBOs, differing Bios setups and what not. You got to try and make sure its going to work for all that.


Ehhh.. 1 thread. One video wrapper file per graphics line. (one for nvidia, ATI, and Intel)

That's hard. Let's look at the PS3.

2-20 threads. With a AI system required to 'scale' the load.

Comptuers are easy.


Umm, when was the last time you tried to buy a CPU? in fact for the past couple of years AMD and Intel have been pushing out multicore processers. Even before that, a lot of P4s had Hyperthreading tech, essentially running multiple threads on a single core. (Well, sort of.) Intel and AMD are already coming out with Quad Cores. So, where the hell is this 1 thread thing your talking about? Hence the reason for GN likes the X360 now,( read entire article) because PCs are also now multicore, multi thread. Yeah, in fact, multicore is old news with processors, theyve been out for a while now. Hell, my father has a 2 year old computer, its running a Pentium Core Duo (multicore).


 I have a Turion64X2 in my laptop, a C2D at home, and my brother is getting a C2Q.

I have trouble thinking of a multi-threaded game. Back to my point. Game designers like 1thread. NOT 2, 4, 8, or 16 like the future is. 



PSN ID: Kwaad


I fly this flag in victory!

Kwaad on 11 October 2007
NJ5 said:

Kwaad, all developers would prefer to program without being forced to use threads. And they would especially prefer to not program on asymmetric architectures as the Cell is... Seriously, Sony took something which is already hard and made it even harder to work with on the PS3.

For that and other reasons (e.g. bad tools and APIs, too much memory overhead from PS3's OS), don't be surprised to continue seeing developers watering down PS3 ports until the PS3 builds a decent userbase (if ever).

 


 Yup, more or less what I said... you just said it a bit more technical.



PSN ID: Kwaad


I fly this flag in victory!

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leo-j on 11 October 2007

Im tired of developers and ther B$, Sony made there SYSTEM they know what its capable off. PC GAMING IS A WASTE OF TIME(sorry pc gamers) It just is, WTF are you doing with barely any games. PS3 is THE BEST EXPERIENCE YOU CAN GET.

PC= Microsoft.



 

mM
Kwaad on 11 October 2007
leo-j said:
Im tired of developers and ther B$, Sony made there SYSTEM they know what its capable off. PC GAMING IS A WASTE OF TIME(sorry pc gamers) It just is, WTF are you doing with barely any games. PS3 is THE BEST EXPERIENCE YOU CAN GET.

PC= Microsoft.

See, that's bias.

And PC gaming is a waste of time/money.

 

Actually right now, I think 360 is the best, just becuase of all the good titles that have come out over the last 22 months. PS3 will be the best next x-mas.

(dont think I dont love my PS3s tho. I now have 2)

EDIT: I also want to point out, I can afford a 2nd PS3 for 400$, but I wont shell out for a 360. 



PSN ID: Kwaad


I fly this flag in victory!

prlatino86 on 11 October 2007

Heres a list of multithreaded games:

Age of Empires III
Black & White 2
Call of Duty 2
City of Villains
WOW
TES4:Oblivion
Bioshock
GRAW1+2
Supreme Commander
Quake 4(with update)
Doom3
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Microsoft Flight Sim X
Rainbow Six: Vegas
Stranglehold

This is just to name a few.



leo-j on 11 October 2007

@Kwaad

No its nowhere near bias, the BEST experience IS ON THE PS3. Motion sensing, great online, music,game downloads, blu-ray playback, pictures etc.. The wii cant do most of the things the ps3 can do, and the 360 doesnt have half of the feateres the ps3 has.(By experience Im NO TALKING ABOUT ACTual games just which one is more enjoyable with just one game..)



 

mM
prlatino86 on 11 October 2007
leo-j said:
@Kwaad

No its nowhere near bias, the BEST experience IS ON THE PS3. Motion sensing, great online, music,game downloads, blu-ray playback, pictures etc.. The wii cant do most of the things the ps3 can do, and the 360 doesnt have half of the feateres the ps3 has.(By experience Im NO TALKING ABOUT ACTual games just which one is more enjoyable with just one game..)

 Are you serious or just being sarcastic.  I honestly cant tell, that comment was so full of irony i have no idea what to think.