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Forums - Sales - Piracy not theft because its a copy..

superchunk said:
Man you guys are killing in trying to force the legal nitty gritty of lawyer definitions for everything.

That is not what's at stake here. I know that *technically* its copyright infringement. I know the world's courts don't call it theft.

In the end its the same thing under a different label. You are taking content (iso) of which you have no legal right to obtain. That is theft, plain and simple.

So please quit with the off topic analogies to try to force a square into a round hole.

You still don't get it. Thats not the case. They are refered to  as two different things because thats simply what they are. Its been pointed out again and again. In one instance, some one is out something, in other instance no one is out anything. There is more than a legal snafu, its two different terms to decribe two different things.



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ChichiriMuyo said:
superchunk said:
@Alterego-X

Instead of spewing random bullshit. Why not admit taking software content without consent is theft.

As for your specific lawyer like examples....

rape - yes
kidnapping - yes
no santa - no, can't steal a lie in the first place
phone number = yes, identity theft O.o
regaining your stolen stuff = no, that's simply reclaiming your property.

So you've clearly never studied the law in the least bit.  Head's up - neither rape nor kidnapping is theft by any legal definition.  For something to be theft, personal property has to be taken.  A person is not property, nor is the sanctity of their genitelia.  Also, because nothing is taken, piracy is not theft.  These things may all be crimes, but not one of them is theft.  Taking your stuff back from thieves, however, can be theft, while getting someone's phone number in and of itself is not even remotely identity theft. You actually have to use the information to imitate the person for it to be identity theft.

 

Please, for the love of god, please go learn about these things before you continue to spout nonsense.


In the UK you don't even need to take someone's property to be guilty of theft. The Theft Act 1968 also allows for the appropriation of another person's rights of title to be theft in a legal sense. This was illustrated by a famous case where a woman was convicted of theft for putting false price tags on items in a shop; the right to price the goods as they saw fit was a right of title belonging to the shop in their capacity as owners.

Not sure if the US has anything similar.



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superchunk said:
Man you guys are killing in trying to force the legal nitty gritty of lawyer definitions for everything.

That is not what's at stake here. I know that *technically* its copyright infringement. I know the world's courts don't call it theft.

In the end its the same thing under a different label. You are taking content (iso) of which you have no legal right to obtain. That is theft, plain and simple.

So please quit with the off topic analogies to try to force a square into a round hole.

You're trying to change the definition of theft to include things that are not thefts. Theft in the sense we are using it is a legal term as theft is a crime, what is considered theft by the law is what theft is.



Rath said:
superchunk said:
Man you guys are killing in trying to force the legal nitty gritty of lawyer definitions for everything.

That is not what's at stake here. I know that *technically* its copyright infringement. I know the world's courts don't call it theft.

In the end its the same thing under a different label. You are taking content (iso) of which you have no legal right to obtain. That is theft, plain and simple.

So please quit with the off topic analogies to try to force a square into a round hole.

You're trying to change the definition of theft to include things that are not thefts. Theft in the sense we are using it is a legal term as theft is a crime, what is considered theft by the law is what theft is.

So this is a "Superchunk is right, the rest of the world and it's laws are wrong" thread?



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superchunk said:
Kasz216 said:
superchunk said:
Kasz216 said:
 

Yeah.  I'm not a pirate.  I'm just pointing out the ridiculious fallacies in your arguement.

It's not illegal to copy just about anything.

You ignored my art gallery thing... probably because you know it had you dead to rights. 

You can copy all the paintings you want and it's legal.

Hell its even legal to make copies of games if you do everything yourself.  That's why most EULA's prohibit backengineering.  Because it's not actually illegal if they don't and people could make all the WOW servers and stuff they want.

It's only illegal because it's easy.  It's that obvious. 

It's actually not illegal for me to copy corvina wine.  If i know their recipie and were to make it.  That would actually NOT BE ILLEGAL.

The only thing that would make it illegal would be if i sold it as Corvina wine.

note.  Sold.

Pepsi recently had the oppurtunity to buy the Coke secret formula.  Had they done so only the person who sold it would of been the criminal and Pepsi could of made all the "Pepsi Classic" or whatever they wanted to.

All they couldn't do is sell it as "Coca-cola." or "Coke."


They could make Coca-cola and give it away all they wanted for free and it wouldn't matter.  The only reason it would be illegal is the name. 

Copying content is theft.

Companies like Coke and Pepsi have their formulas protected just like software. If Pepsi put out a drink that was identical to Coke, coke would sue them for copyright infringement.

Its the same with medicine. Tylenol and Walmart branded stuff are not identical. They share the same 'active ingredients' but walmart doesn't get sued because the actual formulas are different.

Finally, regardless of the actual legal mumbo jumbo, the simple definition on theft stands. You are acquiring content that you did not create (like your own drawing of the Mona Lisa) and you do not have consent to use, that fits the definition of theft defined by a pirate pages ago.

If you recreate the game with different names, as I have done for Battleship and other classic games early in school, then that is legal. But, to copy someone's content without consent is, by definition, theft.

 

How is battleship with a different name different from coke with a different name?

Battleship with a different name is a version I created ground. It does not use "Battleship" logo, images, or anything beyond the idea of placing ships and picking targets. Plus, it had a lot of personal additions like animations, voice overs, etc.

Coke with a different name would be coke's actual formula to create the product.

See the difference?

If I had literally copied Milton-Bradley's code to create my battleboat game, that would be theft. However, I created a wholy new gaming experience off of an idea for a game.

Same as painting your own Mona Lisa and selling it is legal (since you created it from scratch) but, making a perfect copy of it with technology and selling it without the consent of the original properties owner would be illegal, theft.

No.  Because there is none. 

All you are argueing is difficulty.

It's more difficult to paint a perfect copy of the Mona Lisa then it is to zap it with a clone gun.

However there is no actual difference there.

You are proving my point.  "It's illegal cause it's easy."

When you copy something you are creating entirely new code.  It's a copy.  Just like the fake mona lisa or battle boats is a copy.  It's just a well made copy.

It's like argueing that milkshake machines should be illegal because it's easier to make a milkshake that way then the old hard way.



It all depends on the company and game.
If it's a yearly thing like madden or whatever, it's fine to pirate it IMO. Instead of being 60$ release, they could easily be roster updates and patches for the previous year.
Or if it's a game where the company used false advertising, the game had offensive marketing, or even if the game was an outright scam/ripoff (rock revolution at full price, lol)

For companies all I can say is EA and maxis. EA is evil, and Maxis screwed gamers over with securom and just the shallowness of spore.
But even then, I don't pirate games myself. If I did though, it would be a temporary thing until I could buy the game, or for the reasons out of spite above.
I have "gotten some songs off of limewire" though. I mean, it's the same as buying a pre-owned CD. And you support the artists by radio anyhow Well, that's rickity justification on that one, but I really think 1$ per 4 minutes of audio isn't very good.



And that's the only thing I need is *this*. I don't need this or this. Just this PS4... And this gaming PC. - The PS4 and the Gaming PC and that's all I need... And this Xbox 360. - The PS4, the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360, and that's all I need... And these PS3's. - The PS4, and these PS3's, and the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360... And this Nintendo DS. - The PS4, this Xbox 360, and the Gaming PC, and the PS3's, and that's all *I* need. And that's *all* I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one... I need this. - The Gaming PC and PS4, and Xbox 360, and thePS3's . Well what are you looking at? What do you think I'm some kind of a jerk or something! - And this. That's all I need.

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FayeC said:
Piracy isnt theft. Its copyright infringement. While both are crimes, one is a crime due to the fact that we live in a society controlled by the wealthy.

 

I couldn't agree more with this statement.

 

The funniest are members who claim that pirating is taking food from game develepors mouths. Those poor lads hardly see any money from game sales. They get their pay, which may rise (or they get a promotion) depending of the success of the company(developer). The company takes the extra amount of the money the game earned them, which is again a small fraction of what the publisher puts in his pockets. And then again, that is a small fraction of what the games store puts in their pockets. Can you say unfair wealth/profit distribution?

 

 



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joora said:
FayeC said:
Piracy isnt theft. Its copyright infringement. While both are crimes, one is a crime due to the fact that we live in a society controlled by the wealthy.

 

I couldn't agree more with this statement.

 

The funniest are members who claim that pirating is taking food from game develepors mouths. Those poor lads hardly see any money from game sales. They get their pay, which may rise (or they get a promotion) depending of the success of the company(developer). The company takes the extra amount of the money the game earned them, which is again a small fraction of what the publisher puts in his pockets. And then again, that is a small fraction of what the games store puts in their pockets. Can you say unfair wealth/profit distribution?

 

 

Very much so, only it is actually worse with most musicians. The Mixers get paid more than the talent!