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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - So what physical medium will Microsoft be using for their next gen console?

Aren't microsoft working on 25 gb DVD's or something?



And that's the only thing I need is *this*. I don't need this or this. Just this PS4... And this gaming PC. - The PS4 and the Gaming PC and that's all I need... And this Xbox 360. - The PS4, the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360, and that's all I need... And these PS3's. - The PS4, and these PS3's, and the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360... And this Nintendo DS. - The PS4, this Xbox 360, and the Gaming PC, and the PS3's, and that's all *I* need. And that's *all* I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one... I need this. - The Gaming PC and PS4, and Xbox 360, and thePS3's . Well what are you looking at? What do you think I'm some kind of a jerk or something! - And this. That's all I need.

Obligatory dick measuring Gaming Laptop Specs: Sager NP8270-GTX: 17.3" FULL HD (1920X1080) LED Matte LC, nVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M, Intel Core i7-4700MQ, 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3, 750GB SATA II 3GB/s 7,200 RPM Hard Drive

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dunno001 said:
Squilliam said:
^32-64? Huh? Probably 32GB would be about the absolute highest they would need with say a FF game and they could get away with the typical 8/16GB cartridges for 99% of everything else. A Stock SD card reads at twice the speed of the PS3 Optical drive @ 20MB/s with no latency. Thats almost as important as having additional storage space and theres no noise.

@Communisthater: The Elite is the hardcore gamer SKU. Hardcore gamers are the ones who care more about BC and things like that and it helps them turn it into a profit centre.

I actually went up to 64 for those who feel the need that they have to use all the space of a dual-layer BR. (Truthfully, at that much space, I think one really needs to learn code optimization, which may also be easier with the lower load times.) Although yeah, I could also easily see the smaller sizes in use, I just need to think for worst case games, which is where I'm always afraid of things going.

64GB is a massive quantity of space, its hard to imagine developers would have the stomach for the cost to make the content to fill it all up. Of course theres always the option of using 7.1 less compressed sound which always takes up a lot of space but hardly anyone would notice. They would also be able to get by without duplication of commonly used data around the disc to speed loading.



Tease.

If I was a betting man, I would bet that Microsoft would go USB Flash storage for next generation.  This model comes with a lot of positives and few negatives, assuming a launch in 2012 or 2013.

POSITIVES

1) No Disc Drive required

- Removes roughly $35 COG from each system sold.

- Decreases size of system, saving money.

- Decreases complexity of system, thus decreasing failure rate.

2) Multiple games

With USB, gamers could plug in multiple games at once and not have to swap them out.  This creates a more seemless gaming experience.

3) Larger games

If a game was released that needed more space than the default USB Flash supported, the studio could pay for a larger capacity Flash or produce 2.  If multiple are produced, the gamer could still attach all of them to the system at once, thereby eliminating hot-swap requirements.

4) Accessories

This would enable Microsoft to sell another accessory that would basically be a fancy USB hub to attach even more games to the system.

5) Size

Using USB Flash would enable MS to make smaller boxes for the games.  These boxes could be roughly the size of DS cases and thus enable retailers to fit more product on the shelf.  In addition, storage and shipping costs would be reduced.

6) Speed

USB read speeds are substantially better, thereby reducing or removing load times in many games or enabling games to do more texture swapping for better graphics.

NEGATIVES

1) Cost

USB Flash drives would likely cost substantially more than Disc based media.  Write-Once 16GB Flash Drives would likely cost in the range of $2 each to produce compared with about $0.35 for a DVD and about $0.55 for Blu-Ray.

2) Security

MS would likely have to include some sort of security chip on each USB Flash.  This would add additional cost to each drive produced, probably around $0.30 each.

 

HOW COULD THIS WORK

Cost I see as the largest hurdle to overcome.  Game developers would not want to have the extra costs of production added on and would probably revolt behind the scenes a bit.

MS would likely drop the royality by $2 per game produced.  This would put their royality at about $3.5.  The obvious downside here is that MS makes less money per game sold which is a huge negative for them

This would likely be offset by not reducing the price of each system sold as a result of the Disc Drive and size savings.  Combined those would likely account for a solid $40 per system.  Given that their attachrate is approximately 10:1 later in system life, MS would stand to break even on this tradeoff of extra profit per system sold and reduced royalties.

I would bet on MS making the default size 16GB, which would likely be more than enough for all next gen titles.  This assertion is based in the fact that using MS' current compression technology, games are typically less than 7GB in size on the 360.  These same titles usually come in around 10 - 12GB on PS3 without that technological edge.  For games that are larger, MS could offer a 32/64GB flash or allow for multiple drives to be shipped in one case.

 

GOING FURTHER

Taking this concept a step further, MS could also set it up so that a complete game catalog could be available at retail even if the retailer did not have space to stock them on the shelves.

This would utilize a fairly cheap Kiosk system that was bound to the internet using something like ClearWire or other WiMax service.  It would store images of every game ever released locally.  Gamers could approach the system, buy a game, and have it written to a USB flash drive right there.  More than likely this would just pull from their Games on Demand catalog.

To please retailers, MS would likely give a 20% or so cut for each game sold out of their store through a Kiosk.

 

Basically put, I don't think it is desirable or needed to include disc media next generation.  Static storage has gotten big enough and cheap enough to seriously consider utilizing it again in primary consoles.  The various cost savings and flexibility options seriously outweigh the negatives.



siren said:

If I was a betting man, I would bet that Microsoft would go USB Flash storage for next generation.  This model comes with a lot of positives and few negatives, assuming a launch in 2012 or 2013.

POSITIVES

1) No Disc Drive required

- Removes roughly $35 COG from each system sold.

- Decreases size of system, saving money.

- Decreases complexity of system, thus decreasing failure rate.

2) Multiple games

With USB, gamers could plug in multiple games at once and not have to swap them out.  This creates a more seemless gaming experience.

3) Larger games

If a game was released that needed more space than the default USB Flash supported, the studio could pay for a larger capacity Flash or produce 2.  If multiple are produced, the gamer could still attach all of them to the system at once, thereby eliminating hot-swap requirements.

4) Accessories

This would enable Microsoft to sell another accessory that would basically be a fancy USB hub to attach even more games to the system.

5) Size

Using USB Flash would enable MS to make smaller boxes for the games.  These boxes could be roughly the size of DS cases and thus enable retailers to fit more product on the shelf.  In addition, storage and shipping costs would be reduced.

6) Speed

USB read speeds are substantially better, thereby reducing or removing load times in many games or enabling games to do more texture swapping for better graphics.

NEGATIVES

1) Cost

USB Flash drives would likely cost substantially more than Disc based media.  Write-Once 16GB Flash Drives would likely cost in the range of $2 each to produce compared with about $0.35 for a DVD and about $0.55 for Blu-Ray.

2) Security

MS would likely have to include some sort of security chip on each USB Flash.  This would add additional cost to each drive produced, probably around $0.30 each.

 

HOW COULD THIS WORK

Cost I see as the largest hurdle to overcome.  Game developers would not want to have the extra costs of production added on and would probably revolt behind the scenes a bit.

MS would likely drop the royality by $2 per game produced.  This would put their royality at about $3.5.  The obvious downside here is that MS makes less money per game sold which is a huge negative for them

This would likely be offset by not reducing the price of each system sold as a result of the Disc Drive and size savings.  Combined those would likely account for a solid $40 per system.  Given that their attachrate is approximately 10:1 later in system life, MS would stand to break even on this tradeoff of extra profit per system sold and reduced royalties.

I would bet on MS making the default size 16GB, which would likely be more than enough for all next gen titles.  This assertion is based in the fact that using MS' current compression technology, games are typically less than 7GB in size on the 360.  These same titles usually come in around 10 - 12GB on PS3 without that technological edge.  For games that are larger, MS could offer a 32/64GB flash or allow for multiple drives to be shipped in one case.

 

GOING FURTHER

Taking this concept a step further, MS could also set it up so that a complete game catalog could be available at retail even if the retailer did not have space to stock them on the shelves.

This would utilize a fairly cheap Kiosk system that was bound to the internet using something like ClearWire or other WiMax service.  It would store images of every game ever released locally.  Gamers could approach the system, buy a game, and have it written to a USB flash drive right there.  More than likely this would just pull from their Games on Demand catalog.

To please retailers, MS would likely give a 20% or so cut for each game sold out of their store through a Kiosk.

 

Basically put, I don't think it is desirable or needed to include disc media next generation.  Static storage has gotten big enough and cheap enough to seriously consider utilizing it again in primary consoles.  The various cost savings and flexibility options seriously outweigh the negatives.

I think this is a strong possibility. A huge thing I have always hated about disk based games is the long load times as opposed to cartidge based games.



USB drives could work, we won't even need DVD drives for electronics, it could be flash drive movies and flash drive music albums and stuff. Instead of PC CD-ROM games, you could just stick the game USB drive into the USB port and play!



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floppy disks. Pirates can't pirate them because no computers are made with that drive anymore



I have an old tower PC tower here with a floppy drive :).



AdventWolf said:
I have an old tower PC tower here with a floppy drive :).

*calls smithsonian to tell them i found a dinosaur*

:p jk



HD-DVD.



I thought about HD-DVD at first, but blu ray seems like a better choice at a more successful standpoint.