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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Wii wil never get the kind of third party support that the PS2 had.

HappySqurriel on 14 July 2009
BMaker11 said:
--OkeyDokey-- said:
Soriku said:
--OkeyDokey-- said:
routsounmanman said:
--OkeyDokey-- said:

It's not because the games won't sell, it's because nobody wants to make games on outdated hardware. That's really all there is to it. The PS2 was less powerful than the competition, but it was powerful enough.

Ahhhh, so that's why developers steer clear of the DS while opting for the superior PSP. Gotcha. I'll pretend DQIX never happened.

No, they avoid both.


Japan would like a word.

Okay, if power's not the issue, then why isn't Modern Warfare 2, Assassins Creed 2, Resident Evil 5, Bioshock 2, Street Fighter IV, UFC Undisputed, Tekken 6, Prototype, BlazBlue, Lost Planet 2, Red Faction: Guerilla, Fight Night Round 4 and just about every other 2009 multiplat title not getting a Wii version?

Wii sells more software than the other consoles, so we know that's not the reason.

I know that you're trying to say, but I wanna facepalm pic here. When you look at the Wii's software numbers, you see things like Mario, Zelda, Brawl, etc selling 5M+. Then those other games that sell multiple millions? Cooking Mama, Mario and Sonic, Raving Rabbids...etc. Not games that are in the style of the games you mentioned

SaviorX hit the nail on the noggin when he said "which kinds" of games are selling on the Wii. I, too, wouldn't want to be associated with the "it sells the most 3rd party software...because games like Mario and Sonic sell gangbusters". Does it sell the most 3rd party software? Absolutely. Does it sell the "types" of games we associate ourselves with as gamers, in order to get that title? No.

One thing that I think OkeyDokey missed is the obvious point that one version will always suffer in multiplatform games when they're on both the HD consoles and the Wii unless the different versions are built from the ground up for their particular console. If you are going to have to build a game from scratch anyways, why would publishers focus on a multiplatform title; in particular knowing that lots of people have multiple consoles and people are not likely to buy two versions of the same game.



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Snake612 on 14 July 2009

I don't think so. The PS2 was the combination of hardcore and casual gamers. The Wii, at this point, really attracts casual gamers. Most of these third party developers are making either music or shooting games and they want to put it on a console that will sell those type of games. Maybe if the Wii was somewhat like the N64, third party devs would give Nintendo a lot of support.



TO GOD BE THE GLORY

mike_intellivision on 14 July 2009

Third parties do not develop for the Wii as much as the other consoles for two reasons.

The first is inertia. They Wii was expected to do mediocre (at best) to poorly this generation. Instead, it has outsold the Xbox 360 and PS3 worldwide since its release. But the companies were all prepared to develop for the HD consoles. Now, with all of that investment in resources -- people and equipment -- to develop for those machines, they have to recoup their investment.

Second, the Wii is targeted toward everyone. Nintendo realized that chasing the 18-34 male demographic exclusively did not work because (1) that demographic is shrinking and (2) that demographic does not think much of Nintendo's offerings (or at least is pre-disposed to buy something that someone else is offering). The third parties traditionally have offered games that appeal to the 18-34 male demographic; for the most they do not know how to do more broadly-appealing games (e.g., Activision's offerings on the Wii). Thus, they continue to do what they know how to do.

Third parties could take N'Gai Croal's strategy and develop for the Wii and upscale to the PS3 and Xbox 360. Unfortunately, because many of the developers are stuck in a "technology trap" (aka graphics concerns outweigh gameplay concerns), doing such is not an acceptable possibility for them.

Mike from Morgantown



      


I am Mario.


I like to jump around, and would lead a fairly serene and aimless existence if it weren't for my friends always getting into trouble. I love to help out, even when it puts me at risk. I seem to make friends with people who just can't stay out of trouble.

Wii Friend Code: 1624 6601 1126 1492

NNID: Mike_INTV
BMaker11 on 14 July 2009
mike_intellivision said:
Third parties do not develop for the Wii as much as the other consoles for two reasons.

The first is inertia. They Wii was expected to do mediocre (at best) to poorly this generation. Instead, it has outsold the Xbox 360 and PS3 worldwide since its release. But the companies were all prepared to develop for the HD consoles. Now, with all of that investment in resources -- people and equipment -- to develop for those machines, they have to recoup their investment.

Second, the Wii is targeted toward everyone. Nintendo realized that chasing the 18-34 male demographic exclusively did not work because (1) that demographic is shrinking and (2) that demographic does not think much of Nintendo's offerings (or at least is pre-disposed to buy something that someone else is offering). The third parties traditionally have offered games that appeal to the 18-34 male demographic; for the most they do not know how to do more broadly-appealing games (e.g., Activision's offerings on the Wii). Thus, they continue to do what they know how to do.

Third parties could take N'Gai Croal's strategy and develop for the Wii and upscale to the PS3 and Xbox 360. Unfortunately, because many of the developers are stuck in a "technology trap" (aka graphics concerns outweigh gameplay concerns), doing such is not an acceptable possibility for them.

Mike from Morgantown

THIS THIS THIS! You've finally worded what I couldn't since the pattern of big franchise 3rd party games not being on the Wii started. Perfect explanation to "why doesn't Street Fighter, Tekken, Final Fantasy, GTA, blah blah blah etc etc" don't end up on the Wii. I've seen some pretty hairbrain explanations from Wii fans...but I think you nailed it perfectly...as stagnant as it makes the industry seem



senortaco on 14 July 2009
ElRhodeo said:
3rd parties hate the Wii because they have to change their approach. Last gen, when all competiting systems were more or less the same technically, making a hit game was easy: Make sure it looks better than its predecessor.

Today the market leader doesn't allow for doing it that way, so what to do? A lot of 3rd parties heavily rely on their games being cutting edge in the visual department. On the Wii, they can't. What's worse is that the technology is there (on ps3 and 360), so the level of expectations has already been raised - there's no way for them to impress with a Wii game, especially when they try doing multiplatform releases. In an industry based on "bigger is better", downgrading just isn't sexy.

Clever move on Nintendo's part... Multiplat doesn't work, because people won't buy a Wii game when it's just the ugly sibling of a shiny HD version. Since ignoring the market leader is not an option either, 3rd parties will have to increase their exclusive Wii support.

I agree with you in theory that 3rd parties rely too much on graphical power as way to enhance their games. Problem is for the majority of 3rd party games take away the graphics and you have a last gen game. The hardware has improve, but AI's haven't yet, or the way we PLAY the games haven't either (if not on The Wii using proper motion controls).

...one of the things that both Microsft & Sony did by introducing motion controls, not just validating Nintendo assumption that the interface for games has to change, but graphics aren't going to be a driving force anymore. This is why I fully believe, whether people want it or not, Microsoft ESPECIALLY, is going to push motion controls and next gen you will see a slight "JUMP" if any in graphics.

Let's be real next gen is going to be like the 6th gen in that ALL consoles will be roughly the same graphically. If Sony & Micrsoft didn't act now you would get the 6th gen PS2 style donimance(sp?) for the Wii. Believe it or not THIS is not good for third parties, they would rather it be split a 1/3 across the board. 1st Party games should be the tablesetter for which console sales.

As this gen goes, you will see increased support for Nintendo (Thanks to Microsoft & Sony) because 3rd parties are now thinking of the interface(s) rather then the "graphics".



The Interweb is about overreaction, this is what makes it great!

...Imagine how boring the interweb would be if everyone thought logically?

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senortaco on 14 July 2009
BMaker11 said:
mike_intellivision said:
Third parties do not develop for the Wii as much as the other consoles for two reasons.

The first is inertia. They Wii was expected to do mediocre (at best) to poorly this generation. Instead, it has outsold the Xbox 360 and PS3 worldwide since its release. But the companies were all prepared to develop for the HD consoles. Now, with all of that investment in resources -- people and equipment -- to develop for those machines, they have to recoup their investment.

Second, the Wii is targeted toward everyone. Nintendo realized that chasing the 18-34 male demographic exclusively did not work because (1) that demographic is shrinking and (2) that demographic does not think much of Nintendo's offerings (or at least is pre-disposed to buy something that someone else is offering). The third parties traditionally have offered games that appeal to the 18-34 male demographic; for the most they do not know how to do more broadly-appealing games (e.g., Activision's offerings on the Wii). Thus, they continue to do what they know how to do.

Third parties could take N'Gai Croal's strategy and develop for the Wii and upscale to the PS3 and Xbox 360. Unfortunately, because many of the developers are stuck in a "technology trap" (aka graphics concerns outweigh gameplay concerns), doing such is not an acceptable possibility for them.

Mike from Morgantown

THIS THIS THIS! You've finally worded what I couldn't since the pattern of big franchise 3rd party games not being on the Wii started. Perfect explanation to "why doesn't Street Fighter, Tekken, Final Fantasy, GTA, blah blah blah etc etc" don't end up on the Wii. I've seen some pretty hairbrain explanations from Wii fans...but I think you nailed it perfectly...as stagnant as it makes the industry seem

The industry is DEFINITELY stagnate,  thats way Nintendo want the way they did and thats to improve on the interface verses the graphics. One thing that I will agree with the Pacthman on is 2010, or whenever the next gen is, is going to be awesome. You're going to have an even playing field from a graphical standpoint, and you'll have motion controls as well.



The Interweb is about overreaction, this is what makes it great!

...Imagine how boring the interweb would be if everyone thought logically?

Viper1 on 14 July 2009
txrattlesnake said:

     One thing you hear the Nintendo execs and Nintendo fans say is that as this gen continues on sales of the Wii will ensure that the Wii receives humongous third party support that will bring a lot of core games to the system, but I don't really see it happening.

 

       There are a variety of factors that would argue against this happening.  The sales of core games on Wii haven't been that great and regardless of the fact that the Wii has sold 50 million units and almost doubled the marketshare of the other consoles, I still don't think the Wii is the darling of most developers.  I think in Japan that is still the PS3 and that very definitely in the West it is the 360.  And I feel we're too deep into this gen for there to be much of a change in that type of thinking.

     So, I don't think the Wii will ever enjoy the type of support from third parties that most leading consoles including the PS2 received during their gens and time in the spotlight.

If you're going to post something negative about Wii (as you always do), then at least provide better validations than what you posted. 

 

Here is why Wii 3rd party support will never match the PS2.

 

Strategy Analytics [Jul-05] (Worldwide Through 2012)
Sony PS3 - 121.8 million (61%)
Xbox 360 - 58.8 million (30%)
Nintendo Wii - 18 million (9%)
Total - 198.6 million

Kagan Research (U.S. Through 2010)
Sony PS3 - 56.5%
Xbox 360 - 28.5%
Nintendo Wii - 15%

Piper Jaffray (U.S. Through 2008)
Xbox 360 - 19.6 million (48.3%)
Sony PS3 - 15.5 million (38.2%)
Nintendo Wii - 5.5 million (13.5%)
Total - 40.6 million

Citigroup (U.S. Through 2008)
Xbox 360 - 19.8 million
Sony PS3 - 11.0 million

UBS [Jan-06] (U.S. Through 2009)
Sony PS3 - 23 million (43%)
Xbox 360 - 20 million (38%)
Nintendo Wii - 10 million (19%)
Total - 53 million

Friedman Billings Ramsey (U.S. Through 2010)
Xbox 360 - 24.6 million (40.7%)
Sony PS3 - 23.3 million (38.6%)
Nintendo Wii - 12.5 million (20.7%)
Total - 60.4 million

In-Stat (Worldwide Through 2010)
Sony PS3 - 50%
Xbox 360 - 28.6%
Nintendo Wii - 21.2%

Wedbush Morgan Securities (U.S. and Europe Through 2010)
Sony PS3 - 45%
Xbox 360 - 35%
Nintendo Wii - 20%

Merrill Lynch (Worldwide Through 2008)
Xbox 360 - 47%
Sony PS3 - 33%
Nintendo Wii - 20%

IDG (U.S. Through 2008)
Xbox 360 - 15.5 million (43.3%)
Sony PS3 - 13.5 million (37.7%)
Nintendo Wii - 6.8 million (19.0%)
Total - 35.8 million

P.J. McNealy (Worldwide Through 2007)
Xbox 360 - 21 to 23 million
Sony PS3 - 13 to 16 million
Nintendo Wii - 12 to 14 million

Yankee Group (North America Through 2011)
Sony PS3 - 30 million (44%)
Xbox 360 - 27 million (40%)
Nintendo Wii - 11 million (16%)
Total - 68 million

Nomura Securities (Worldwide Through 2011)
Sony PS3 - 71 million
Nintendo Wii - 40 million

Enterbrain / Famitsu (Worldwide Through 2009)
Sony PS3 - 34 million (39.1%)
Xbox 360 - 28 million (32.2%)
Nintendo Wii - 25 million (28.7%)
Total - 87 million

IDG (North America Through 2010)
Xbox 360 - 23.9 million (39.2%)
Sony PS3 - 23.5 million (38.5%)
Nintendo Wii - 13.6 million (22.3%)
Total - 61 million

Merrill Lynch (Worldwide Through March 2011)
Xbox 360 - 39%
Sony PS3 - 34%
Nintendo Wii - 27%

Strategy Analytics [Nov-06] (Worldwide Through 2012)
Sony PS3 - 121.8 million (59.47%)
Xbox 360 - 59.7 million (29.15%)
Nintendo Wii - 23.3 million (11.38%)
Total - 204.8 million

SFG Research (North America Through 2010)
Xbox 360 - 29.4 million (43.8%)
Sony PS3 - 24.2 million (36.1%)
Nintendo Wii - 13.5 million (20.1%)
Total - 67.1 million

SFG Research (Worldwide Through 2010)
Sony PS3 - 62 million (46.6%)
Xbox 360 - 46 million (34.6%)
Nintendo Wii - 25 million (18.8%)
Total - 133 million

Screen Digest (U.S. Through 2010)
Xbox 360 - 42%
Sony PS3 - 38%
Nintendo Wii - 20%

Screen Digest (Japan Through 2010)
Sony PS3 - 64%
Nintendo Wii - 25%
Xbox 360 - 11%

IDC (Worldwide Through 2008)
Nintendo Wii - 32.1 million (37%)
Xbox 360 - 30.4 million (35%)
Sony PS3 - 24.5 million (28%)
Total - 87 million

UBS [May-07] (U.S. Through 2010)
Xbox 360 - 22 million (35.5%)
Sony PS3 - 21 million (33.9%)
Nintendo Wii - 19 million (30.6%)
Tolal - 62 million

 

 

Developers and publishers allocated thier resources and money based on these reports.  Back before PS2 launched these same reports had PS2 very high on marketshare so it received huge support well before the console even launched.  Now look at what happened to Wii before it even launched - analysts killed any hope of major 3rd party love.

 

The non-Nintendo core audience that has taken up the Wii is a result of the initial software provided which itself is a result of expectations based on these reports.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Arius Dion on 14 July 2009
Viper1 said:
txrattlesnake said:

     One thing you hear the Nintendo execs and Nintendo fans say is that as this gen continues on sales of the Wii will ensure that the Wii receives humongous third party support that will bring a lot of core games to the system, but I don't really see it happening.

 

       There are a variety of factors that would argue against this happening.  The sales of core games on Wii haven't been that great and regardless of the fact that the Wii has sold 50 million units and almost doubled the marketshare of the other consoles, I still don't think the Wii is the darling of most developers.  I think in Japan that is still the PS3 and that very definitely in the West it is the 360.  And I feel we're too deep into this gen for there to be much of a change in that type of thinking.

     So, I don't think the Wii will ever enjoy the type of support from third parties that most leading consoles including the PS2 received during their gens and time in the spotlight.

If you're going to post something negative about Wii (as you always do), then at least provide better validations than what you posted. 

 

Here is why Wii 3rd party support will never match the PS2.

 

Strategy Analytics [Jul-05] (Worldwide Through 2012)
Sony PS3 - 121.8 million (61%)
Xbox 360 - 58.8 million (30%)
Nintendo Wii - 18 million (9%)
Total - 198.6 million

Kagan Research (U.S. Through 2010)
Sony PS3 - 56.5%
Xbox 360 - 28.5%
Nintendo Wii - 15%

Piper Jaffray (U.S. Through 2008)
Xbox 360 - 19.6 million (48.3%)
Sony PS3 - 15.5 million (38.2%)
Nintendo Wii - 5.5 million (13.5%)
Total - 40.6 million

Citigroup (U.S. Through 2008)
Xbox 360 - 19.8 million
Sony PS3 - 11.0 million

UBS [Jan-06] (U.S. Through 2009)
Sony PS3 - 23 million (43%)
Xbox 360 - 20 million (38%)
Nintendo Wii - 10 million (19%)
Total - 53 million

Friedman Billings Ramsey (U.S. Through 2010)
Xbox 360 - 24.6 million (40.7%)
Sony PS3 - 23.3 million (38.6%)
Nintendo Wii - 12.5 million (20.7%)
Total - 60.4 million

In-Stat (Worldwide Through 2010)
Sony PS3 - 50%
Xbox 360 - 28.6%
Nintendo Wii - 21.2%

Wedbush Morgan Securities (U.S. and Europe Through 2010)
Sony PS3 - 45%
Xbox 360 - 35%
Nintendo Wii - 20%

Merrill Lynch (Worldwide Through 2008)
Xbox 360 - 47%
Sony PS3 - 33%
Nintendo Wii - 20%

IDG (U.S. Through 2008)
Xbox 360 - 15.5 million (43.3%)
Sony PS3 - 13.5 million (37.7%)
Nintendo Wii - 6.8 million (19.0%)
Total - 35.8 million

P.J. McNealy (Worldwide Through 2007)
Xbox 360 - 21 to 23 million
Sony PS3 - 13 to 16 million
Nintendo Wii - 12 to 14 million

Yankee Group (North America Through 2011)
Sony PS3 - 30 million (44%)
Xbox 360 - 27 million (40%)
Nintendo Wii - 11 million (16%)
Total - 68 million

Nomura Securities (Worldwide Through 2011)
Sony PS3 - 71 million
Nintendo Wii - 40 million

Enterbrain / Famitsu (Worldwide Through 2009)
Sony PS3 - 34 million (39.1%)
Xbox 360 - 28 million (32.2%)
Nintendo Wii - 25 million (28.7%)
Total - 87 million

IDG (North America Through 2010)
Xbox 360 - 23.9 million (39.2%)
Sony PS3 - 23.5 million (38.5%)
Nintendo Wii - 13.6 million (22.3%)
Total - 61 million

Merrill Lynch (Worldwide Through March 2011)
Xbox 360 - 39%
Sony PS3 - 34%
Nintendo Wii - 27%

Strategy Analytics [Nov-06] (Worldwide Through 2012)
Sony PS3 - 121.8 million (59.47%)
Xbox 360 - 59.7 million (29.15%)
Nintendo Wii - 23.3 million (11.38%)
Total - 204.8 million

SFG Research (North America Through 2010)
Xbox 360 - 29.4 million (43.8%)
Sony PS3 - 24.2 million (36.1%)
Nintendo Wii - 13.5 million (20.1%)
Total - 67.1 million

SFG Research (Worldwide Through 2010)
Sony PS3 - 62 million (46.6%)
Xbox 360 - 46 million (34.6%)
Nintendo Wii - 25 million (18.8%)
Total - 133 million

Screen Digest (U.S. Through 2010)
Xbox 360 - 42%
Sony PS3 - 38%
Nintendo Wii - 20%

Screen Digest (Japan Through 2010)
Sony PS3 - 64%
Nintendo Wii - 25%
Xbox 360 - 11%

IDC (Worldwide Through 2008)
Nintendo Wii - 32.1 million (37%)
Xbox 360 - 30.4 million (35%)
Sony PS3 - 24.5 million (28%)
Total - 87 million

UBS [May-07] (U.S. Through 2010)
Xbox 360 - 22 million (35.5%)
Sony PS3 - 21 million (33.9%)
Nintendo Wii - 19 million (30.6%)
Tolal - 62 million

 

 

Developers and publishers allocated thier resources and money based on these reports.  Back before PS2 launched these same reports had PS2 very high on marketshare so it received huge support well before the console even launched.  Now look at what happened to Wii before it even launched - analysts killed any hope of major 3rd party love.

 

The non-Nintendo core audience that has taken up the Wii is a result of the initial software provided which itself is a result of expectations based on these reports.


LoL, well, this thread was fun while it lasted.



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

JGarret on 14 July 2009

Viper, I read your post quickly, but it´d seem all these groups weren´t that far off the mark when it comes to the 360??



puffy on 14 July 2009
Viper1 said:
txrattlesnake said:

     One thing you hear the Nintendo execs and Nintendo fans say is that as this gen continues on sales of the Wii will ensure that the Wii receives humongous third party support that will bring a lot of core games to the system, but I don't really see it happening.

 

       There are a variety of factors that would argue against this happening.  The sales of core games on Wii haven't been that great and regardless of the fact that the Wii has sold 50 million units and almost doubled the marketshare of the other consoles, I still don't think the Wii is the darling of most developers.  I think in Japan that is still the PS3 and that very definitely in the West it is the 360.  And I feel we're too deep into this gen for there to be much of a change in that type of thinking.

     So, I don't think the Wii will ever enjoy the type of support from third parties that most leading consoles including the PS2 received during their gens and time in the spotlight.

If you're going to post something negative about Wii (as you always do), then at least provide better validations than what you posted. 

 

Here is why Wii 3rd party support will never match the PS2.

 

Strategy Analytics [Jul-05] (Worldwide Through 2012)
Sony PS3 - 121.8 million (61%)
Xbox 360 - 58.8 million (30%)
Nintendo Wii - 18 million (9%)
Total - 198.6 million

    (...)

UBS [May-07] (U.S. Through 2010)
Xbox 360 - 22 million (35.5%)
Sony PS3 - 21 million (33.9%)
Nintendo Wii - 19 million (30.6%)
Tolal - 62 million

 

 

Developers and publishers allocated thier resources and money based on these reports.  Back before PS2 launched these same reports had PS2 very high on marketshare so it received huge support well before the console even launched.  Now look at what happened to Wii before it even launched - analysts killed any hope of major 3rd party love.

 

The non-Nintendo core audience that has taken up the Wii is a result of the initial software provided which itself is a result of expectations based on these reports.

This last point is exactly why core orientated titles will mostly not sell high numbers on Wii. Third parties have created the problem themselves by not supporting Wii properly from the beginning. The fact that Wii is still getting on-rails versions of titles such as Resident Evil and Dead Space or not getting any support at all shows that third parties are not willing to try to correct it and to be honest, it's basically too late.