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Forums - Microsoft - Forza 3: No weather, night racing, or rally

Carl on 12 July 2009

^
ownage.



                            

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Bitmap Frogs on 12 July 2009

So this is an stealthy F3 vs GT5 thread?

Oh gawd.





Current-gen game collection uploaded on the profile, full of win and good games; also most of my PC games. Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts 1982-2008 (Requiescat In Pace).

sabby_e17 on 12 July 2009
AE86 said:
selnor said:

WTF are you on about? Do you know anything about cars? Do you know what Ive done? When I was 16 years old, for 12 months I toured with GP2, and helped work on the cars with my uncle who was in F1 the next year. You picked the wrong person to argue with about, tyre pressure, engines etc etc. I know what makes a REALISTIC racing game.

Tire pressure...hahahahah....sixteen years and you learned about tire pressure?

How about camber? caster? toe? steering axis inclination? bump damping? rebound? anti-roll? Scrub rate? Suspension track? Viscous vs clutch pack LSD? Open diff vs locked diff? LSD preload? 1.5 way vs 2 way LSD? Parallel steer? Dog tracking? Port and polishing? Valve timing? Valve overlap? Aluminium vs Cast Iron blocks? Cam timing? Cam lift/duration? Bore/stroke? Firing order? Gear ratios? Final drive ratios? Downforce? Compression ratio? Octane ratings? Radial/bias ply? Slicks vs drag radials vs street tires? Stage 1 vs Stage 2 clutch? Lightening flywheels? Torque converter stall? Ignition cut launch control? Fuel cut? Helical cut vs straight cut gears? Sequential vs 5 speed vs Dual clutch vs Automatic transmissions? Drive by wire vs carbureted vs throttle body? Hell, do you even know the difference in oil weights?

I could go on for days, but I'm sure you'll find a way to come up with a response chock full of wikipedia quotes.

From what I've seen you know next to nothing about cars, if you'd like to argue I'd be more than happy, but I can assure you my life in the autmotive engineering industry and being an pro-am track day driver/drifter has afforded me a lot more knowledge than your "tour with GP2".

Oh no, Selnor is going to get angry reading this.




BMaker11 on 12 July 2009
Carl2291 said:
^
ownage.

No, it's beyond that.

Jay-Z made "Death of Autotune".....AE86 just made "Death of selnor"



BMaker11 on 12 July 2009
Bitmap Frogs said:
So this is an stealthy F3 vs GT5 thread?

Oh gawd.

 

BMaker11 said:
I'm not even going to read the comments. I'm just going to assume that either Zen or selnor (definitely selnor) will come in here and spin this to hell and back.

And everything in between will be labeled as "sony fanboys".....even though this article is about Forza's lack of features, and nothing about Gran Turismo.

So it did turn into a thread about GT, deviating from the lack of features in Forza? Well, I got one part right. You tell me if I got the "Sony fanboys" part right too. I'm too lazy to go through 5 pages
BMaker11 said:
I'm not even going to read the comments. I'm just going to assume that either Zen or selnor (definitely selnor) will come in here and spin this to hell and back.

And everything in between will be labeled as "sony fanboys".....even though this article is about Forza's lack of features, and nothing about Gran Turismo.


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selnor on 12 July 2009
AE86 said:
selnor said:

WTF are you on about? Do you know anything about cars? Do you know what Ive done? When I was 16 years old, for 12 months I toured with GP2, and helped work on the cars with my uncle who was in F1 the next year. You picked the wrong person to argue with about, tyre pressure, engines etc etc. I know what makes a REALISTIC racing game.

Tire pressure...hahahahah....sixteen years and you learned about tire pressure?

How about camber? caster? toe? steering axis inclination? bump damping? rebound? anti-roll? Scrub rate? Suspension track? Viscous vs clutch pack LSD? Open diff vs locked diff? LSD preload? 1.5 way vs 2 way LSD? Parallel steer? Dog tracking? Port and polishing? Valve timing? Valve overlap? Aluminium vs Cast Iron blocks? Cam timing? Cam lift/duration? Bore/stroke? Firing order? Gear ratios? Final drive ratios? Downforce? Compression ratio? Octane ratings? Radial/bias ply? Slicks vs drag radials vs street tires? Stage 1 vs Stage 2 clutch? Lightening flywheels? Torque converter stall? Ignition cut launch control? Fuel cut? Helical cut vs straight cut gears? Sequential vs 5 speed vs Dual clutch vs Automatic transmissions? Drive by wire vs carbureted vs throttle body? Hell, do you even know the difference in oil weights?

I could go on for days, but I'm sure you'll find a way to come up with a response chock full of wikipedia quotes.

From what I've seen you know next to nothing about cars, if you'd like to argue I'd be more than happy, but I can assure you my life in the autmotive engineering industry and being an pro-am track day driver/drifter has afforded me a lot more knowledge than your "tour with GP2".

LOL. You talk about wikipedia and yet thats probably where you got that info. LOL.

I have never talked about racing ( real life racing and specs ) with anyone on this site. So your pulling accusations out of your backside. I have only ever talked about the Racing in VIDEO GAMES on this site. And now you bring to attention all the stuff you dont understand, it's a perfect oppurtunity to say to you that is exactly why Forza is leagues ahead of GT. Forza has so much more tuning options than GT it isn't funny. Yes I only have GT5P as a guage. But Forza 2 wiped the floor with GT5P in terms of tuning. After playing Forza 2 then playing GT5P not being able to to set variable camber on GT5P for instance is painful. Yes you can change camber, but it's so basic compared to Forza 2's dynamic variable system it hurts.

The fact that you think GT has been at the forefront in Realism proves to me that you know very little about racing, and what actually affects the car as it hurtles through a corner at 100 mph.

The majority of things you talk about there are mechanical and only influeantual in certain racing competitions. Almost all racing competitions have a certain spec list to operate to. Meaning you have to opt for a certain LSD or you will be disqualified. Competitions have rules. Many things affect the handling of a car. The reason why I mention Tyre deformation so much is that the tyre on any car in any competition does 60% of the work for handling. That is the only part of a car the touches the road. It converts the power, the braking, the entry and exit speeds. Also the brake temperature affects the tyre temperature. A track may be 30 degrees and be optimal for one type of tyre. For instance softer compound will heat up faster and have much better grip quicker. But fall away much faster as they grain. Forza 3 has all of this implemented. Again this then affects understeer and oversteer. But another driver may be on a harder compound. Which will take longer to heat, but provide better grip for longer. Even then it depends on a cars aero design. Certain cars can make softer compounds last longer because they treat cars tyres better in the corners.

Tyres and their condition can make as much as 4 secs a lap in race conditions. If GT5 does not have this very intricate system ( which takes alot of resources to calculate ) then it's fail fail fail in terms of realism. I have no doubt that the mechanical tuning side of Forza 3 will be top dog. As Forza has always been far in front over GT. I hope to god they have an in depth telemetry system in GT like Forza 2. Because this is vital to understand how a car is behaving and where you can make up 0.100 s.

If you want to speak about real world racing in it's technicalities. Come and join the racing specialists forums where I have been a member for 7 years. Peace.



Carl on 12 July 2009

Not having night time racing in Le Mans 24 hour is fail fail fail fail in terms of realism.



                            

BMaker11 on 12 July 2009
selnor said:
AE86 said:
selnor said:

WTF are you on about? Do you know anything about cars? Do you know what Ive done? When I was 16 years old, for 12 months I toured with GP2, and helped work on the cars with my uncle who was in F1 the next year. You picked the wrong person to argue with about, tyre pressure, engines etc etc. I know what makes a REALISTIC racing game.

Tire pressure...hahahahah....sixteen years and you learned about tire pressure?

How about camber? caster? toe? steering axis inclination? bump damping? rebound? anti-roll? Scrub rate? Suspension track? Viscous vs clutch pack LSD? Open diff vs locked diff? LSD preload? 1.5 way vs 2 way LSD? Parallel steer? Dog tracking? Port and polishing? Valve timing? Valve overlap? Aluminium vs Cast Iron blocks? Cam timing? Cam lift/duration? Bore/stroke? Firing order? Gear ratios? Final drive ratios? Downforce? Compression ratio? Octane ratings? Radial/bias ply? Slicks vs drag radials vs street tires? Stage 1 vs Stage 2 clutch? Lightening flywheels? Torque converter stall? Ignition cut launch control? Fuel cut? Helical cut vs straight cut gears? Sequential vs 5 speed vs Dual clutch vs Automatic transmissions? Drive by wire vs carbureted vs throttle body? Hell, do you even know the difference in oil weights?

I could go on for days, but I'm sure you'll find a way to come up with a response chock full of wikipedia quotes.

From what I've seen you know next to nothing about cars, if you'd like to argue I'd be more than happy, but I can assure you my life in the autmotive engineering industry and being an pro-am track day driver/drifter has afforded me a lot more knowledge than your "tour with GP2".

LOL. You talk about wikipedia and yet thats probably where you got that info. LOL.

I have never talked about racing ( real life racing and specs ) with anyone on this site. So your pulling accusations out of your backside. I have only ever talked about the Racing in VIDEO GAMES on this site. And now you bring to attention all the stuff you dont understand, it's a perfect oppurtunity to say to you that is exactly why Forza is leagues ahead of GT. Forza has so much more tuning options than GT it isn't funny. Yes I only have GT5P as a guage. But Forza 2 wiped the floor with GT5P in terms of tuning. After playing Forza 2 then playing GT5P not being able to to set variable camber on GT5P for instance is painful. Yes you can change camber, but it's so basic compared to Forza 2's dynamic variable system it hurts.

The fact that you think GT has been at the forefront in Realism proves to me that you know very little about racing, and what actually affects the car as it hurtles through a corner at 100 mph.

The majority of things you talk about there are mechanical and only influeantual in certain racing competitions. Almost all racing competitions have a certain spec list to operate to. Meaning you have to opt for a certain LSD or you will be disqualified. Competitions have rules. Many things affect the handling of a car. The reason why I mention Tyre deformation so much is that the tyre on any car in any competition does 60% of the work for handling. That is the only part of a car the touches the road. It converts the power, the braking, the entry and exit speeds. Also the brake temperature affects the tyre temperature. A track may be 30% and be optimal for one type of tyre. For instance softer compound will heat up faster and have much better grip quicker. But fall away much faster as they grain. Forza 3 has all of this implemented. Again this then affects understeer and oversteer. But another driver may be on a harder compound. Which will take longer to heat, but provide better grip for longer. Even then it depends on a cars aero design. Certain cars can make softer compounds last longer because they treat cars tyres better in the corners.

Tyres and their condition can make as much as 4 secs a lap in race conditions. If GT5 does not have this very intricate system ( which takes alot of resources to calculate ) then it's fail fail fail in terms of realism.

Your entire post after that is just crap because of that sentence. The arguments about Forza and GT are always about which one is more "definitive" and sports more "realism". In order to have "realism", what do you need to know? REAL LIFE RACING AND SPECS! I mean, you are the one talking about tire pressure, tire deformation, drifting, etc. Now all those things that you need to know how they work in real life in order to recreate it in a game.....is just AE86 pulling nonsense out of his ass (excuse me *ahem* backside)? Slap yourself

And don't try and knock GT because it never had damage at 100MPH. If a car crashes into a corner at that speed, it'll be totalled, not just have a little dent in the side *maybe* a fender hanging off the front. But since you're the expert, I guess that's "realism"



selnor on 12 July 2009
Carl2291 said:
Not having night time racing in Le Mans 24 hour is fail fail fail fail in terms of realism.


I'm referring to how a car behaves. Car behaviour >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks of the game. Because if night racing is implemented. You then have the track cooling down. Maybe from 30 to 18. This agian makes the handling of a car change completely. Braking zones change, accelerating changes as does race lines. It's not like you can just implement something like night racing unless you can replicate the changes realistically. Night Racing isn't just about it going dark. It changes your driving completely.



Carl on 12 July 2009
selnor said:
Carl2291 said:
Not having night time racing in Le Mans 24 hour is fail fail fail fail in terms of realism.


I'm referring to how a car behaves. Car behaviour >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks of the game. Because if night racing is implemented. You then have the track cooling down. Maybe from 30 to 18. This agian makes the handling of a car change completely. Braking zones change, accelerating changes as does race lines. It's not like you can just implement something like night racing unless you can replicate the changes realistically. Night Racing isn't just about it going dark. It changes your driving completely.

That doesn't change the fact that having no night time racing in a Le Mans 24 hour race = fail fail fail fail in terms of realism.