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Forums - Nintendo - Super Mario Galaxy - 720p through Wii emulator.

WereKitten said:
^Actually I think I never saw anyone saying that SMG looked anything but beautiful on Wii. And seeing it rendered in 720p, as well as all the other emulator screens and videos I've seen is interesting because it shows how:

1) With the established development costs for Wii games, they could have ended looking better if Nintendo had put a better GPU in the Wii.

2) The option of putting out a slightly revised Wii that can render at 720p could be viable, as it would offer nice visual improvements for old games, especially for people with really big screens for whom upscaled 480p could be quite jaggy/fuzzy.

What does your case have to do with anything I said? 

I started out on these forums when SMG came out, and people bad mouthed the game, in fact most threads made by pro PS360 gamers downplayed the visuals.

It simply doesn't look better in 720p it has a few less jaggies but a lot more glitches and overall with things like the glossy enemy it makes it look worse...



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

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WereKitten is right, the emulator renders games at 720p (thought it might use some tricks to do it depending on the game).

It's the same thing the 360 does to Xbox games. It takes the commands that the games give to the Xbox GPU (things like "draw this polygon" or "put this texture on this object") and uses the 360 GPU to perform those commands at a higher resolution. The emulator can also render with additional anti-aliasing which the emulated platform isn't capable of.

It's better than upscaling. Upscaling is just rendering at some resolution (480p in the Wii's case) and then "zoom in" that image to get a bigger one with more pixels.



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

MaxwellGT2000 said:
WereKitten said:
^Actually I think I never saw anyone saying that SMG looked anything but beautiful on Wii. And seeing it rendered in 720p, as well as all the other emulator screens and videos I've seen is interesting because it shows how:

1) With the established development costs for Wii games, they could have ended looking better if Nintendo had put a better GPU in the Wii.

2) The option of putting out a slightly revised Wii that can render at 720p could be viable, as it would offer nice visual improvements for old games, especially for people with really big screens for whom upscaled 480p could be quite jaggy/fuzzy.

What does your case have to do with anything I said? 

I started out on these forums when SMG came out, and people bad mouthed the game, in fact most threads made by pro PS360 gamers downplayed the visuals.

It simply doesn't look better in 720p it has a few less jaggies but a lot more glitches and overall with things like the glossy enemy it makes it look worse...

I was reasoning on why I think closely watching the progress in Wii emulation is significative, beyond the "ZOMG this looks so good because it has more pixels" caricature.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

It looks worse.



@WereKitten: This doesn't mean Nintendo could make a Wii HD to render existing games at higher resolution. This emulator uses HLE (high-level emulation) which is a bit of a dirty hack to intercept the rendering commands and such. It would require something like virtualizing the games.

Making a new console with the approach of this emulator would probably require vastly more powerful hardware, and it wouldn't necessarily work for all games, for the same reason that Microsoft couldn't make all Xbox games work properly on the 360.

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

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To repeat: This isn't 720P.

720P implies a resolution of 1280 horizontal pixels by 720 vertical pixels (1280x720). This is in the 16:9 format.

These screens are in the 4:3 format old TVs have. So there's no possible way you can call this 720P.

 

Edit: After print screening using my monitor it comes out as 1280x960.



WereKitten said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
WereKitten said:
^Actually I think I never saw anyone saying that SMG looked anything but beautiful on Wii. And seeing it rendered in 720p, as well as all the other emulator screens and videos I've seen is interesting because it shows how:

1) With the established development costs for Wii games, they could have ended looking better if Nintendo had put a better GPU in the Wii.

2) The option of putting out a slightly revised Wii that can render at 720p could be viable, as it would offer nice visual improvements for old games, especially for people with really big screens for whom upscaled 480p could be quite jaggy/fuzzy.

What does your case have to do with anything I said? 

I started out on these forums when SMG came out, and people bad mouthed the game, in fact most threads made by pro PS360 gamers downplayed the visuals.

It simply doesn't look better in 720p it has a few less jaggies but a lot more glitches and overall with things like the glossy enemy it makes it look worse...

I was reasoning on why I think closely watching the progress in Wii emulation is significative, beyond the "ZOMG this looks so good because it has more pixels" caricature.

Call me when the emulator works 100%, makes the textures higher rez automatically without someone having to redraw them all AKA remaking the game, and makes the 3D models better.  Which it won't, ever, so the game will never really look "better" just the same with less jaggies and more pixels.

People get excited over nothing is my point here, we've already had comments in this thread implied rendering the game in 720p is "ZOMG AMAZING" and people are getting excited over nothing especailly when the game looks worse because the emulator screws up the graphics.



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

MaxwellGT2000 said:
WereKitten said:
^Actually I think I never saw anyone saying that SMG looked anything but beautiful on Wii. And seeing it rendered in 720p, as well as all the other emulator screens and videos I've seen is interesting because it shows how:

1) With the established development costs for Wii games, they could have ended looking better if Nintendo had put a better GPU in the Wii.

2) The option of putting out a slightly revised Wii that can render at 720p could be viable, as it would offer nice visual improvements for old games, especially for people with really big screens for whom upscaled 480p could be quite jaggy/fuzzy.

 

It simply doesn't look better in 720p it has a few less jaggies but a lot more glitches and overall with things like the glossy enemy it makes it look worse...

 

Smash Bros does. They just got Galaxy inparticular working decently with the last build, so some graphics problems at this point are predictable.

Besides, who's getting excited? I simply said Smash Bros looks much better than on the Wii, which is predictible when the Wii itself had outdated hardware when it was released. The fact that modern computers can in certain cases exceed the capabilites of that system through emulation isn't that suprising or exciting.



Demon's Souls Official Thread  | Currently playing: Left 4 Dead 2, LittleBigPlanet 2, Magicka

NJ5 said:
@WereKitten: This doesn't mean Nintendo could make a Wii HD to render existing games at higher resolution. This emulator uses HLE (high-level emulation) which is a bit of a dirty hack to intercept the rendering commands and such.

Making a new console with the approach of this emulator would probably require vastly more powerful hardware, and it wouldn't necessarily work for all games.

I do agree entirely that this is not a proof of things to come nor necessarily the best way for Nintendo to do it. But it's at least an indication of how good results you could get from the very same game data.

As GC and original Xbox hardware are of similar complexity, I suppose that an emulation on a spiced up PowerPC core (as in the case of the 360) would not be that hard to achieve if you have full access to all hardware and software specs. Even if the whitelist of "old" compatible titles was not complete, the emulation would probably just need to cover the most popular share of the Wii library.

On the other hand, maybe the greatest burden would come from having to include the Wii+ in the testing suites for future titles, but I'm not really aware of the costs of the testing/certification phase of development or the associated tools.

 



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

MaxwellGT2000 said:
WereKitten said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
WereKitten said:
^Actually I think I never saw anyone saying that SMG looked anything but beautiful on Wii. And seeing it rendered in 720p, as well as all the other emulator screens and videos I've seen is interesting because it shows how:

1) With the established development costs for Wii games, they could have ended looking better if Nintendo had put a better GPU in the Wii.

2) The option of putting out a slightly revised Wii that can render at 720p could be viable, as it would offer nice visual improvements for old games, especially for people with really big screens for whom upscaled 480p could be quite jaggy/fuzzy.

What does your case have to do with anything I said? 

I started out on these forums when SMG came out, and people bad mouthed the game, in fact most threads made by pro PS360 gamers downplayed the visuals.

It simply doesn't look better in 720p it has a few less jaggies but a lot more glitches and overall with things like the glossy enemy it makes it look worse...

I was reasoning on why I think closely watching the progress in Wii emulation is significative, beyond the "ZOMG this looks so good because it has more pixels" caricature.

Call me when the emulator works 100%, makes the textures higher rez automatically without someone having to redraw them all AKA remaking the game, and makes the 3D models better.  Which it won't, ever, so the game will never really look "better" just the same with less jaggies and more pixels.

People get excited over nothing is my point here, we've already had comments in this thread implied rendering the game in 720p is "ZOMG AMAZING" and people are getting excited over nothing especailly when the game looks worse because the emulator screws up the graphics.

How is the underlined not better?

Improved image quality is better.  That's not really debatable.   Now, how much of a improvement it provides to the total package is highly subjective.  It is an improvement, however, and that can't be argued.

I, for one, think the above screens look gorgeous.  For me, image quality is more important than polygon count or textures.  Give me a 720p image with 4xAA and v-sync enabled running at 60fps with Super Mario Galaxy-like graphics over something like Crysis running on a half-assed rig at 20fps with horrendous jaggiez any day of the week.