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Forums - Nintendo - Next Zelda to *not* be "radically different"

silentmac on 02 July 2009
ZZetaAlec said:
silentmac said:
ZZetaAlec said:
silentmac said:

I think it does need to be radically different. Twilight Princess should be the last game they make in the vein of OoT. I would like to as many as possible of the following added in the next iteration:

Steam Punk or Darker Medieval Artstyle or go the other direction and make it a painting or Cell Shaded like Okami/Wind Waker
Voice Acting for everyone but Link
Orchestral Music
Wii Motion +
Larger World on the Scale of Everquest or WoW
Ability to actually go into every building and have a more living world like Oblivion but I don't want a Western RPG... It should still be scripted...
Much more complex story (Waring Nations/Intrigue, Romance, etc.)
No More Ganon (He's played out)
No More retarded Mail Man or Tingle
They don't need to make a game with a gimick (ie flooded world, light/dark world etc.) for it to be a good game, just make it have an epic story and great gameplay and that is all I need.


If Nintendo can't do this, they need to give it to someone who can, because despite me still loving Zelda games like Okami and the Team Ico games a so impressive that they are making Zelda lose its lustre in my eyes.. This is all IMO of course...

I fail to see how you can claim that TP should be the last game in the vain of OoT and then proceed to create a list in which most of the things listed are just the next logical step while keeping the series in the style of OoT. It's obvious that they wish to retain elements of previous Zelda's in oder to keep it a 'Zelda game' but if they do make great changes to the interface then most of your claims could be renderd redundant. I just find it ironic that you claim the next entry in the series should be radically different and make a list of request only realistically possible if they keep the gameplay the same.

Oh well see my post about changing the pacing as well..  But I see your point that these are logical steps.  But then again, there seems to be quite a bit of resistance to doing anything but another OoT with better graphics and a new gimmick...

On the contrary, I find most of the Zelda/gaming community to be quite eager for the series to move forwards, myself included. The issue with most of your suggestions is that are either a) dependent on the series staying the same or b) totally against the themes of the franchise. Stuff like 'steam punk hyrule' basically is 'another OoT with better graphics and a new gimmick...'. Your comments on pacing is fair, but what you said about it basically amounts to 'it should be different' and as such is so vague that it a pretty much useless comment. If your going to make a bunch of outlandish claims in where most of them depend on the gameplay being the same and then proceed to state that they should change the Dungeon/Item/Boss formula, then you better have an idea which escapes this progression and allows all your previous ideas as well as retain the Zelda style or people (quite rightfully) arn't going to take you seriously.

Well as to the change of pacing.  Certainly they could bring more of the action out of the dungeons and into the overworld or make the dungeons more seamless with the world.  This was already done brilliantly with Okami where it is hard to tell where a dungeon begins and the world ends sometimes.  Also, again having a deeper story with more involved cut scenes would help.

The rest of the stuff was just stuff IMO to make the game deeper and more grand which is what it needs IMO besides a pacing change.  Of course, as already pointed out, there is resistance to any change even if it doesn't change the core of the game with this franchise...



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ZZetaAlec on 02 July 2009
silentmac said:
ZZetaAlec said:
silentmac said:

Oh I forgot to mention that I think the pacing of the game should be changed too...

It shouldn't be look for dungeon key (fetch quest), complete dungeon, get story bit, wash rinse and repeat for 9 dungeons. It is far too predictable as it is now.

I'm not saying that they should change the core of what Zelda is: Exploration, Enemy Types, Characters, Hearts, Dungeons, Bosses, The Master Sword etc. but I do think it needs a big change. BTW, I have played every Zelda to date to completion. Even the handheld ones.  I just think it is starting to get stagnant and feel that it needs to be more cinematic and grandiose.

I agree that it does need a change in this area but most of your previous list is comprised of equally predictable tripe.

Well what would you suggest as ways to make changes that are non-invasive?   They seem to have painted themselves into a corner at this point.  If they change the game completely like making it an MMO or something there will be cries of outrage and if they keep it the same, there will be cries of outrage.  Keeping it the same may be easier but eventually people will get tired of playing it.  They already tried changing the core mechanic quite a bit in Zelda 2 and Majora's Mask and people complain to no end about those. All my suggestion are things to make the game have a grander scale, more interactivity.

Majora's Mask is held in high acclaim by most. Zelda II is somewhat derided not nesseraly because of the change of style, but more because it simply didn't work. You're right that fans will complain either way but that's THEIR fault. THEY'VE painted themselves into a corner via their own conception regarding the series, but that's not Nintendo's fault. That's something that happens with any franchise of any medium.



silentmac on 02 July 2009

Majora's Mask is held in high esteem now, but I seem to remember a ton of complaints when it was first released..



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Words Of Wisdom on 02 July 2009
ZZetaAlec said:

Majora's Mask is held in high acclaim by most. Zelda II is somewhat derided not nesseraly because of the change of style, but more because it simply didn't work. You're right that fans will complain either way but that's THEIR fault. THEY'VE painted themselves into a corner via their own conception regarding the series, but that's not Nintendo's fault. That's something that happens with any franchise of any medium.

Actually Zelda 2 is remembered because it's still the hardest game in the series and was simply frustratingly hard in some points.



Majin-Tenshinhan on 02 July 2009
silentmac said:
Majora's Mask is held in high esteem now, but I seem to remember a ton of complaints when it was first released..


Oh really? It has a 95 on Metacritic, so surely you can't mean from critics, then.



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jcp234 on 02 July 2009
SaviorX said:
melbye said:
Good, we have seen enough franchises being turn into something they should not be this generation

Look at Banjo- trash.

This, this and this. I am so disappointed with what Microsoft/Rare did to Banjo Kazooie. ugh...I hope Microsoft/Rare will consider a proper sequel to the franchise.

On Topic: I am looking forward to the next console iteration of Zelda. I skipped Twilight Princess...the whole wolf transformation thing turned me off. I hope there is more incorporation of magic. Maybe it can have options to focus skills? Magic, sword combat/strength, and ranged weapons/stealth?



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JUG on 02 July 2009

Personally I would love to see a game where either Zelda or Ganondorf is the protaganist that the player controls.

Imagine a game set in another world other than Hyrule which Ganon sets out to destroy, with action-adventure gameplay. The replacement for Dungeons could be towns full of innocent villagers and the odd have-a-go hero who acts as the boss and tries to resist your evil rampage.

That would never happen, but Zelda is a remote possibility - maybe they could call it The Legend of Link!



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fabledgamer on 02 July 2009

zelda is one of those franchises where if they make it, i will buy it. i love zelda that much lol.



ZZetaAlec on 02 July 2009
silentmac said:
ZZetaAlec said:
silentmac said:
ZZetaAlec said:
silentmac said:

I think it does need to be radically different. Twilight Princess should be the last game they make in the vein of OoT. I would like to as many as possible of the following added in the next iteration:

Steam Punk or Darker Medieval Artstyle or go the other direction and make it a painting or Cell Shaded like Okami/Wind Waker
Voice Acting for everyone but Link
Orchestral Music
Wii Motion +
Larger World on the Scale of Everquest or WoW
Ability to actually go into every building and have a more living world like Oblivion but I don't want a Western RPG... It should still be scripted...
Much more complex story (Waring Nations/Intrigue, Romance, etc.)
No More Ganon (He's played out)
No More retarded Mail Man or Tingle
They don't need to make a game with a gimick (ie flooded world, light/dark world etc.) for it to be a good game, just make it have an epic story and great gameplay and that is all I need.


If Nintendo can't do this, they need to give it to someone who can, because despite me still loving Zelda games like Okami and the Team Ico games a so impressive that they are making Zelda lose its lustre in my eyes.. This is all IMO of course...

I fail to see how you can claim that TP should be the last game in the vain of OoT and then proceed to create a list in which most of the things listed are just the next logical step while keeping the series in the style of OoT. It's obvious that they wish to retain elements of previous Zelda's in oder to keep it a 'Zelda game' but if they do make great changes to the interface then most of your claims could be renderd redundant. I just find it ironic that you claim the next entry in the series should be radically different and make a list of request only realistically possible if they keep the gameplay the same.

Oh well see my post about changing the pacing as well..  But I see your point that these are logical steps.  But then again, there seems to be quite a bit of resistance to doing anything but another OoT with better graphics and a new gimmick...

On the contrary, I find most of the Zelda/gaming community to be quite eager for the series to move forwards, myself included. The issue with most of your suggestions is that are either a) dependent on the series staying the same or b) totally against the themes of the franchise. Stuff like 'steam punk hyrule' basically is 'another OoT with better graphics and a new gimmick...'. Your comments on pacing is fair, but what you said about it basically amounts to 'it should be different' and as such is so vague that it a pretty much useless comment. If your going to make a bunch of outlandish claims in where most of them depend on the gameplay being the same and then proceed to state that they should change the Dungeon/Item/Boss formula, then you better have an idea which escapes this progression and allows all your previous ideas as well as retain the Zelda style or people (quite rightfully) arn't going to take you seriously.

Well as to the change of pacing.  Certainly they could bring more of the action out of the dungeons and into the overworld or make the dungeons more seamless with the world.  This was already done brilliantly with Okami where it is hard to tell where a dungeon begins and the world ends sometimes.  Also, again having a deeper story with more involved cut scenes would help.

The rest of the stuff was just stuff IMO to make the game deeper and more grand which is what it needs IMO besides a pacing change.  Of course, as already pointed out, there is resistance to any change even if it doesn't change the core of the game with this franchise...

I agree that the series needs progression but your really just going around in circles and resorting to the 'bigger is better' outlook. I don't really have an issue with most of your suggestions (outside of 'steampunk' and 'romance' I think they're quite reasonable) but in contrast I would prefer the game taking place on a much smaller scale but with more focus and detail. As you can see there isn't an end all explanation for where the series should go but you should remember this; Nintendo isn't stupid.

They know there is a lot of pressure for the series to progress, Miyamoto's coments confirm this, but Nintendo doesn't 'do' logical progressions. I assume your suggestions come from a likeing of Western style RPG's and my comments come from fond memories of Majora's Mask. However Nintendo wont go down these paths precisely because they've been done before. When they went to re-invent Metroid with Prime they took a direction that fans initially abhored, but it went on to have the highest average review score of last gen, be considerd a classic entry in the series and practically invented the FPA in the process. The same with Mario Galaxy in were they veered off sideways and basically reinvented the platformer. It's almost inevitable they will attempt the same with Zelda Wii made even more likey now that they have WMP to incorporate. So when more info on Zelda Wii is disclosed and you realise that most of your ideas havn't been used, don't cry fowl and realise that it's precisely because they havn't taken the obvious path that it makes it all the more likely to become something truly special and unique.



Mr Khan on 02 July 2009
Words Of Wisdom said:
silentmac said:

I think it does need to be radically different. Twilight Princess should be the last game they make in the vein of OoT. I would like to as many as possible of the following added in the next iteration:

Steam Punk or Darker Medieval Artstyle or go the other direction and make it a painting or Cell Shaded like Okami/Wind Waker
Steam Punk no, but an alternate style is welcome. Darker would be okay, but Okami would not (its style was too classically japanese, meant to be intrusively arty)

Voice Acting for everyone but Link
No. It's part of the series allure at this point.

Orchestral Music
Yes. They proved how epic it was with Super Mario Galaxy

Wii Motion +
Obviously.
Larger World on the Scale of Everquest or WoW
Maybe. I'm familiar with neither of those, but a more intricate world (instead of just everything connecting to one big hub), would be welcome.
Ability to actually go into every building and have a more living world like Oblivion but I don't want a Western RPG... It should still be scripted...
I agree with this, and a good example of what you're trying to articulate is Majora's Mask. Good scripting, exploration, but it felt like a living world.
Much more complex story (Waring Nations/Intrigue, Romance, etc.)
Maybe as back-story, but not as part of the story itself. More lore is always good, more force-fed story, no.
No More Ganon (He's played out)
Ganon is fine, they just need to diversify him.
No More retarded Mail Man or Tingle
Part of the series' charm. They stay.
They don't need to make a game with a gimick (ie flooded world, light/dark world etc.) for it to be a good game, just make it have an epic story and great gameplay and that is all I need.
Pretty much every Zelda game from LttP onward had a gimmick (light/dark, time travel, time travel & masks, sailing, light/dark and transformation), their implementation was just different. But i actually agree with this. They should go with a fairly neutral story, but build a new world to the point where it feels very different


If Nintendo can't do this, they need to give it to someone who can, because despite me still loving Zelda games like Okami and the Team Ico games a so impressive that they are making Zelda lose its lustre in my eyes.. This is all IMO of course...

I pray your ideas never come within a country mile of anyone Nintendo related.

My thoughts, anyway. Your post articulated some of the biggest points on the table about Zelda, so i'm not picking on you or anything



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