outlawauron said: Shadowblind said: outlawauron said: Shadowblind said: Skittles said: So what's the worst char? So I know to play him/her/it when I buy the game. XD Carl At least for me. Working his automaton is impossible for me. Arakune is tough as nails to get a good grip on, but if you use his curse and evade style, he's a bitch a take out. Maybe Litchie. Everytime I've ever fought her shes lost horribly, even on Very Hard mode. Never tried her though. Carl doesn't suck. He's like Ness, and takes a lot of TLC to use correctly. According to prelim tiers, the worst are Iron (big red guy) and Bang. Yeah, Bang can be extremely useless sometimes...but I saw an online fight between him and Jin, and he ripped the guy to shreds. I'm pretty sure iron-tager is not bad at all, he has so many spammable attacks its not funny. Personally, I don't care at all about tiers. They suck, but I will say the skill of the player far outweighs an imaginary tier.

True only to a certain extent though :) As much as I hate to say it, Tiers are real.

CaseyDDR said: outlawauron said: Shadowblind said: outlawauron said: Shadowblind said: Skittles said: So what's the worst char? So I know to play him/her/it when I buy the game. XD Carl At least for me. Working his automaton is impossible for me. Arakune is tough as nails to get a good grip on, but if you use his curse and evade style, he's a bitch a take out. Maybe Litchie. Everytime I've ever fought her shes lost horribly, even on Very Hard mode. Never tried her though. Carl doesn't suck. He's like Ness, and takes a lot of TLC to use correctly. According to prelim tiers, the worst are Iron (big red guy) and Bang. Yeah, Bang can be extremely useless sometimes...but I saw an online fight between him and Jin, and he ripped the guy to shreds. I'm pretty sure iron-tager is not bad at all, he has so many spammable attacks its not funny. Personally, I don't care at all about tiers. They suck, but I will say the skill of the player far outweighs an imaginary tier. True only to a certain extent though :) As much as I hate to say it, Tiers are real.

Tiers are real, but completely useless for 99% of players. Tiers only show what characters are best when pushed to the limits of what those characters are capable of, and only the hardest of the hardcore can approach the limits of what characters are capable of. Meaning that for average, or even above average players tiers are essentially meaningless.

The_vagabond7 said: CaseyDDR said: outlawauron said: Shadowblind said: outlawauron said: Shadowblind said: Skittles said: So what's the worst char? So I know to play him/her/it when I buy the game. XD Carl At least for me. Working his automaton is impossible for me. Arakune is tough as nails to get a good grip on, but if you use his curse and evade style, he's a bitch a take out. Maybe Litchie. Everytime I've ever fought her shes lost horribly, even on Very Hard mode. Never tried her though. Carl doesn't suck. He's like Ness, and takes a lot of TLC to use correctly. According to prelim tiers, the worst are Iron (big red guy) and Bang. Yeah, Bang can be extremely useless sometimes...but I saw an online fight between him and Jin, and he ripped the guy to shreds. I'm pretty sure iron-tager is not bad at all, he has so many spammable attacks its not funny. Personally, I don't care at all about tiers. They suck, but I will say the skill of the player far outweighs an imaginary tier. True only to a certain extent though :) As much as I hate to say it, Tiers are real. Tiers are real, but completely useless for 99% of players. Tiers only show what characters are best when pushed to the limits of what those characters are capable of, and only the hardest of the hardcore can approach the limits of what characters are capable of. Meaning that for average, or even above average players tiers are essentially meaningless.

Not true, because two equally skilled players proves exactly how tiers can work, whether they are two beginners or two experienced users. Tiers are a lot more important than you seem to think. A perfect example would be MVC2, SF4, and SF3S. Tekken suffers from it also, but being a horrible game I don't know as much about it. Would you like specific examples? I can easily provide them :) Tiers DO effect gameplay quite a bit.

CaseyDDR said: The_vagabond7 said: CaseyDDR said: outlawauron said: Shadowblind said: outlawauron said: Shadowblind said: Skittles said: So what's the worst char? So I know to play him/her/it when I buy the game. XD Carl At least for me. Working his automaton is impossible for me. Arakune is tough as nails to get a good grip on, but if you use his curse and evade style, he's a bitch a take out. Maybe Litchie. Everytime I've ever fought her shes lost horribly, even on Very Hard mode. Never tried her though. Carl doesn't suck. He's like Ness, and takes a lot of TLC to use correctly. According to prelim tiers, the worst are Iron (big red guy) and Bang. Yeah, Bang can be extremely useless sometimes...but I saw an online fight between him and Jin, and he ripped the guy to shreds. I'm pretty sure iron-tager is not bad at all, he has so many spammable attacks its not funny. Personally, I don't care at all about tiers. They suck, but I will say the skill of the player far outweighs an imaginary tier. True only to a certain extent though :) As much as I hate to say it, Tiers are real. Tiers are real, but completely useless for 99% of players. Tiers only show what characters are best when pushed to the limits of what those characters are capable of, and only the hardest of the hardcore can approach the limits of what characters are capable of. Meaning that for average, or even above average players tiers are essentially meaningless. Not true, because two equally skilled players proves exactly how tiers can work, whether they are two beginners or two experienced users. Tiers are a lot more important than you seem to think. A perfect example would be MVC2, SF4, and SF3S. Tekken suffers from it also, but being a horrible game I don't know as much about it. Would you like specific examples? I can easily provide them :) Tiers DO effect gameplay quite a bit.

Only in the event of two equally skilled players, and in a pool of people who are not pros skill level will vary greatly, and anybody with a slight skill advantage is still going to beat somebody of less skill a statistically significant number of times regardless of tier. People can't just pick Akuma (Super Street fighter 2 turbo) and expect to win against somebody who is better than them because Akuma is god tier and banned from tourney play. I've seen a great many a scrubs get their asses kicked using Akuma because they relied on tiers rather than trying to actually improve skill. Tiers do exist, I do not debate that. But unless the two people playing are of equal skill the tier is irrelevant. And the only place where you are likely to consistently find people of nearly equal skill is in the pro-leagues where people are all playing at a nearly perfect level, where there is almost no room left for improvement within the game (that they are aware of, until somebody develops some new tech or strategy that quickly gets adopted). But sitting around playing with friends or some online matches, you are much better served trying to learn the character you like than picking whoever is at the top of the evolving tier list thinking that somehow gives you the edge when you don't even know the very technical reasons that they are at the top of the tier list, which usually involves very precise calculations of hit boxes and frames of animation, and statistical data from tourneys. Unless of course the game is just grossly imbalanced or broken and certain characters are de-facto useless or cheaply unbeatable. But if that's the case odds are the game won't be overly popular in tourney crowds, or those characters are advertised and known as broken.

Agree with vagabond: Tier is relative, an example would be Dhalsim from SFIV who is generally rank amongst the mid to lower tier character but was used to win the Japan National SFIV tourney (Iyo beat RF who was using 'Mr OP' himself: Sagat).

Tier also changes as players find new ways to exploit and use a character to their maximum potential. There are some cases were tier REALLY do exist in a bad way, making some matchup and indeed some character unplayable in tournament condition such as Rock from Soul Calibur IV but in general most character can be used competitively to win tourney even against equally skilled players, in the end, the key to most fighter games (aside from sound knowledge base) revolves around reflex, anticipation and a small amount of luck.

Man, I love Carl. I have a horrible Win/Lose ratio but that's because he's so tough to master.

So few people have used Carl too. Less than 650 have even used Carl once in battle on the PS3 version. I'm very close to the top 100 though. (I'm at 120 and about 3 wins out)

It's also funny that me and Casey got matched up randomly. I beat him 2-0 though.

outlawauron said: Man, I love Carl. I have a horrible Win/Lose ratio but that's because he's so tough to master. So few people have used Carl too. Less than 650 have even used Carl once in battle on the PS3 version. I'm very close to the top 100 though. (I'm at 120 and about 3 wins out) It's also funny that me and Casey got matched up randomly. I beat him 2-0 though.

I had no freaking idea how to get to him!

Taokaka got some payback tonight ;)
on a side note, i hate using my controller because my drive specials NEVER go off, stupid analog stick.

I'm getting an arcade stick tomorrow.

CaseyDDR said: Taokaka got some payback tonight ;) on a side note, i hate using my controller because my drive specials NEVER go off, stupid analog stick. I'm getting an arcade stick tomorrow.

You did, but it's still tied 2-2 at the moment.

If you get an arcade stick, then I'm for sure screwed. I use the d-pad and it works well enough, but I do have trouble activating specials sometimes.

my gf got me Fear 2 yesterday and I think I'm going to return it for a controller instead and just pay the difference. lol