MikeB said: @ LordTheNightKnight The Amiga could hook up to the TV, but barring special plugs, you HAD to hook up home consoles to TVs. The Amiga 500 had a DB23M video connector to connect to monitors, as well as a RF connector to connect to ordinary TV sets.

"could" vs "had". What part of that didn't you understand?

Again, you "countered" with the very point I made. The SNES and Mega Drive don't have video connectors. RF and A/V plugs are the only options. I wasn't claiming that the Amiga didn't have those plugs. I was pointing out that the other systems didnt.

No matter what you think, the Amiga is not a video game console. It is a gaming PC (although a very good one). Comparing them is what I object to, as it twists facts to suit a point that isn't even relevant to the point of discussion you are responding to.

Of course the Amiga 500 would have a faster processor than the SNES, even the first model (although the first model came out three years before, not five. The Amiga 500 launched in '87, and the Super Famicom launched in Japan in '90).

The x68000 is a computer, and its more powerful than the Amiga. What you said doesn't make any sense when you take those two thing into account.



No, its mostly speech. Monkey Island was originally released on floppy, which has less space than the bigger carts for the SNES and MD. Later, a much improved version that had recorded voices and MIDI music was released.

Besides, the SNES and MD had games that synthesized speech as well, so your argument is invalid.



In that case, the original Gameboy is "stronger" than the PSX and equal to the PS2.

And that means the SNES is "stronger" than the Amiga. Oh Shit....



You could say, "well, they designed this for the future like the amiga", but instead you bring up IBM PR bullshit about how the Cell itself is similar to the Amiga. I can understand the argument you post here, but you always focus on the similarities between the hardware. Basically, what you post here is bullshit that contradicts everything else you've posted.



And this makes your original statement correct how?



Why? You dont want to admit how poorly you misread and misunderstood what I posted? And here I thought you were a stand up guy, not afraid to admit he was wrong. Oh well.... fourth time it is



I guess so, since there are still things you haven't answered or things you cherry picked to answer... how... well... how typical of you.

Here we go again;

Learn the difference between cutscenes and FMV games.

Maybe I should post a bunch of screens from those games so you can see how shitty they were, even though it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

/ Second times the charm



The Neo-Geo was designed as Arcade hardware from the outset, selling it at home was secondary and it was never seriously considered for that role. If you want to use the Neo-Geo as an example then why not bring up the Capcom CPS changer?

Plenty of other consoles and computers have made its way into arcades, but that doesn't mean shit as far as sales go. The Dreamcast may have failed as a console, but the Naomi arcade board derived from its hardware has been very sucessful, just like the successor derived from Naomi, Atomiswave.

IMO both those boards are more impressive thanks to the variety and quality of games released and generally being more successful than Amiga arcade boards, but that means about as much to this argument as "1 million sold consoles".

-

But my point is that the SNES/MD put a major dent into the Amigas gaming market - due to both the lower price and the problem of piracy on the platform. Really, you can argue that the other problems hurt the brand more but you cant argue that developers moving to consoles wasn't an issue.

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Arguably the dumbest thing you've ever posted, next to whats in my sig. In fact, I think I have something new to accompany that statement.

Differing opinions are fine, but saying something that outlandish, especially when it flies in the face of popular opinion is rediculous. Now, I could say that all the Amiga games were trash Euro centric titles that ripped off bigger, and better games from America and Japan. Thats my opinion, so you should have no grounds to talk, right? I can provide stupid reasoning for this as well.

But I digress...

Really, how can you ignore some of the best RPGs ever made, whcih were exclusive to the SNES. How can you ignore the massive amount of games Square, Capcom, Enix, Konami, ect realeased on the platform. How can you ignore some of the highest rated games of their day, many of them third party, on the SNES. Its like saying the PS2 was cool thanks to the Sony published games, ignoring FF, DMC, ect.

-

I thought you would enjoy attributing the design of the SNES to the Amgia, especially give how the SNES went on to sell far, far more than the Amiga.

/ Third times the charm

Yes it does.

The Neo-Geo was designed as Arcade hardware from the outset, selling it at home was secondary and it was never seriously considered for that role. If you want to use the Neo-Geo as an example then why not bring up the Capcom CPS changer?

Plenty of other consoles and computers have made its way into arcades, but that doesn't mean shit as far as sales go. The Dreamcast may have failed as a console, but the Naomi arcade board derived from its hardware has been very sucessful, just like the successor derived from Naomi, Atomiswave.

IMO both those boards are more impressive thanks to the variety and quality of games released and generally being more successful than Amiga arcade boards, but that means about as much to this argument as "1 million sold consoles".

-

As far as I can tell, he said the SNES killed what was left of the amiga as developers flocked to a system that was free of piracy. Sure, its gaming prime was over but the system was still in millions of homes and had plenty of games past 1990. I slightly disagree in the sense that I think the MD hurt the Amiga more, especially early on, but basically its correct - the Amiga wasn't a viable platform later in life due to piracy, aging hardware and better options available to developers. - I'll add that this mean "most" developers, there are always some people making games for dead platforms.

-

I really dont want you to lose any credibility, so please address the rest of my points - namely that the SNES is far more similar in design to the Amiga than the PS3.

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And how many games rendered at 512? Oh wait, you mean most were considerably lower res, even under 480.... this reminds me of Halo 3. - one of my favs

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This is from another thread, but I'd stil like a response
Do I have to pull up links to that thread?

As I explained then, and will explain now, I posted that link when you were posting BS diagrams yourself. To make my intent even more obvious, I posted, with that diagram, something to the effect of "I can post misleading info that takes things out of context as well".

Really, I dont see how I could have made that any more obvious and I cant see your "example" as anything more than a attempt to misconstrue what I said - probably in an attempt to avoid my other points. And all this comes from the man who claims flops is a great benchmark.....

/ Fourth times the charm

You guys can still get your bets in. MikeB hasn't reformed yet!

@ LordTheNightKnight

If you owned both systems, like I did, you will compare both systems to decide which version of a game you would like to get.



The first Amiga, the desktop Amiga 1000 came on the market in 1985. I already stated the Amiga 500, a homecomputer model, came on the market in 1987. The Super Famicom came on the Japanese market in 1990, but the Snes in Europe in 1992. I believe that's exactly what I stated before.

@ sieanr

The X68000 was technically more powerful than the Snes and an unexpanded Amiga 500 with regard to gaming in general. Tough the system only was released in Japan and was more similar to Japanese arcade hardware than either Snes or Amiga 500, thus arcade games were often nearly identical.

I don't understand what that has to do with anything being discussed.



MIDI music takes up little space on the disc, the Amiga 500 disc based version of Monkey Island 2 was about 10 MBs of data which exlcuded speech. That's much larger than the largest Snes game ever released. Most Snes and MegaDrive games were only about 1 MB as cartidges were expensive.



Did you read what I was responding to?



Taking workload off the CPU (similar to taking workload off the PPE) and learning curve for developers. I still stand by my perspectives.



Because the statement was correct, there is a lack of mouse and keyboard support in Snes games compared to Amiga 500 games.



I never did that, I said I bought only the Nintendo exclusives.

@ sieanr

I have now responded to your cries within the original thread.

MikeB said: @ LordTheNightKnight No matter what you think, the Amiga is not a video game console. It is a gaming PC (although a very good one). Comparing them is what I object to, as it twists facts to suit a point that isn't even relevant to the point of discussion you are responding to. If you owned both systems, like I did, you will compare both systems to decide which version of a game you would like to get. How does that make the Amiga a console? A lot of gamers prefer PC versions of games also availably on consoles, but they know those PCs are not consoles. I'm not claiming which is better for gaming, since I didn't have an Amiga, and admit I am not qualified to judge that. Yet I don't have to own one to know that the systems are classified as PCs, since that is public knowledge.  Of course the Amiga 500 would have a faster processor than the SNES, even the first model (although the first model came out three years before, not five. The Amiga 500 launched in '87, and the Super Famicom launched in Japan in '90). The first Amiga, the desktop Amiga 1000 came on the market in 1985. I already stated the Amiga 500, a homecomputer model, came on the market in 1987. The Super Famicom came on the Japanese market in 1990, but the Snes in Europe in 1992. I believe that's exactly what I stated before. Not quite. You didn't make those specific facts clear, but thank you for doing that now.

 

MikeB said: @ sieanr I have now responded to your cries within the original thread.

 

No you didn't.

Still plenty of things you ignored from this thread - there is only one thing from another thread I posted here, and you know what that is.

Yes you did.

You said the only good SNES games were the Nintendo exclusives and the system lacked game variety, in an attempt to marginalize the systems library.

Maybe you misread the first post. You seem to do that a lot.

I said I could post screen shots that had absoloutly nothing to do with the discussion at hand, like you did with the massive amount of pointless Amiga screenshots.



This is funny because Monkey island 2 was only released on floppy for the Amiga. In fact, it came on 12 floppies.

Yes. You tried to invert his argument and turn it against him, but that only works if it cant backfire against you.

Oh well, it looks like the SNES is ~5x more powerful than the Amiga.....

Thats not what you originally said. Here, I'll repost since you seem to be forgeting again "the lack of keyboard and mouse support in games"

If you had said "most games" you'd be fine, but instead you make it sound like no games supported the mouse. Oops 

Taking workload off the PPE isn't similar to audio and video chips taking workload off the CPU. In fact, you yourself have posted about how the CPU aids the GPU, which is the oposite of what you state the Amiga did.

 

But I digress, MikeB still hasn't answered everything from this thread, so here we go again....

Learn the difference between cutscenes and FMV games.

Maybe I should post a bunch of screens from those games so you can see how shitty they were, even though it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

/ Third times the charm

The Neo-Geo was designed as Arcade hardware from the outset, selling it at home was secondary and it was never seriously considered for that role. If you want to use the Neo-Geo as an example then why not bring up the Capcom CPS changer?

Plenty of other consoles and computers have made its way into arcades, but that doesn't mean shit as far as sales go. The Dreamcast may have failed as a console, but the Naomi arcade board derived from its hardware has been very sucessful, just like the successor derived from Naomi, Atomiswave.

IMO both those boards are more impressive thanks to the variety and quality of games released and generally being more successful than Amiga arcade boards, but that means about as much to this argument as "1 million sold consoles".

-

But my point is that the SNES/MD put a major dent into the Amigas gaming market - due to both the lower price and the problem of piracy on the platform. Really, you can argue that the other problems hurt the brand more but you cant argue that developers moving to consoles wasn't an issue.

-

I thought you would enjoy attributing the design of the SNES to the Amgia, especially give how the SNES went on to sell far, far more than the Amiga.

/ Fourth times the charm

 

Yes it does.

The Neo-Geo was designed as Arcade hardware from the outset, selling it at home was secondary and it was never seriously considered for that role. If you want to use the Neo-Geo as an example then why not bring up the Capcom CPS changer?

Plenty of other consoles and computers have made its way into arcades, but that doesn't mean shit as far as sales go. The Dreamcast may have failed as a console, but the Naomi arcade board derived from its hardware has been very sucessful, just like the successor derived from Naomi, Atomiswave.

IMO both those boards are more impressive thanks to the variety and quality of games released and generally being more successful than Amiga arcade boards, but that means about as much to this argument as "1 million sold consoles".

-

As far as I can tell, he said the SNES killed what was left of the amiga as developers flocked to a system that was free of piracy. Sure, its gaming prime was over but the system was still in millions of homes and had plenty of games past 1990. I slightly disagree in the sense that I think the MD hurt the Amiga more, especially early on, but basically its correct - the Amiga wasn't a viable platform later in life due to piracy, aging hardware and better options available to developers. - I'll add that this mean "most" developers, there are always some people making games for dead platforms.

-

I really dont want you to lose any credibility, so please address the rest of my points - namely that the SNES is far more similar in design to the Amiga than the PS3.

-

And how many games rendered at 512? Oh wait, you mean most were considerably lower res, even under 480.... this reminds me of Halo 3. - one of my favs

/ Fifth times the charm

And here is what was taken from another thread, and it has been labled as such from the begining;

This is from another thread, but I'd stil like a response

Do I have to pull up links to that thread?

As I explained then, and will explain now, I posted that link when you were posting BS diagrams yourself. To make my intent even more obvious, I posted, with that diagram, something to the effect of "I can post misleading info that takes things out of context as well".

Really, I dont see how I could have made that any more obvious and I cant see your "example" as anything more than a attempt to misconstrue what I said - probably in an attempt to avoid my other points. And all this comes from the man who claims flops is a great benchmark.....

Lets see if he can answer these "cries" he's been ignoring

This thread is hella long so I only read the first half of it. One thing definitely stood out to me though. The analyst said that while the PS3 was struggling this year, the software would be put on hold or delayed and then start up again once the PS3 hits its stride.

Has this ever happened in the history of gaming?? Maybe I is ignent, but I thought that when a console is not doing well, sources move to the more successful console and they rarely come back. I have never heard of tons of projects just being put on hold and then later completed. It doesn't happen. Software companies are in the industry to make money and to do so they follow the money. All numbers and sales are pointing to the Wii and Xb0x360 to be the money makers. Why would software companies take a huge gamble on some unknown to just make games for a future 'successful' PS3, when they could simply stick to the successful consoles now and make money now?

There is a reason that many people here often talk about the spiral of death that many consoles have gone through in the past. There has never been a case in the history of gaming when the spiral has been magically reversed. Now is it possible Sony could do some reversing? I believe so. But NOT enough to sell over 15 million a year for the next two years. The Wii is off to one of the best starts in hardware history and it will probably sell around 17 million this year.

Who do these crazy analysts think they are? There is no historical precedent and all of the sales figures currently point in the opposite direction. This, to me, says they are basing their prediction on no solid ground. That's a bad analyst.

What are MikeB and sieanr arguing about anyway?

@ sieanr

For me, I liked dark and scary games as well as adventures. I never stated everyone has to think like me, like you do. I owned an Amiga and for me in general it was a better gaming system, amongst many other uses.



I think 11 if I remember correctly, what's so funny about that?



Lack here reffers to shortage, if there a lack of food that doesn't mean there is no food at all. Understand?



Everything OK with you?

I'll be back! Tomorrow.