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Forums - Gaming Discussion - AHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

takkxyz on 01 October 2007

Edit: Never mind, I am just ranting, but if everyone think a feature is innovative, point to me and I'll try my best to debunk it. Right now thou, I gotta go sleep.



I am a PC gamer, and also have a NDS now, but without access to a Nintendo Wii until End of 2007.

Currently playing: Super Smash Brothers Brawl(Wii), Mystery Dungeon: Shiren the Wanderer(DS), Dragon Quest Heroes: Rocket Slime (DS), WiiFit(Wii)

Games Recently Beaten: Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a King (Normal; Very Hard after the next DLCs become available)

1 word: RTFA

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WiteoutKing on 01 October 2007

If someone can show me where in consoles you have been able to replay matches, rewind, fast forward, jump immediately to the next death, leave all characters' points of view and free-roam the match, and edit the clips to shorten them as necessary, please by all means point me to it.

Until then, the Halo Theater is an innovation in FPS gaming.



PS3: 5.51m/51w, avg 108,039/w (up 239)
360: 12.93m/102w, avg 126,764/w (up 625), leads PS3 by 7.42m (up 70k), avg lead 18,725/w (up 386)
Wii: 13.52m/51w, avg 265,098/w (dn 1,102), leads PS3 by 8.01m (up 90k), avg lead 157,059/w (dn 1,341)

If 360 sales stabilize, PS3 sales increases needed to pass 360 by...
01/08: (008w) +875.8%, 04/08: (021w) +344.4%, 07/08: (034w) +219.3%, 10/08: (047w) +163.5%
01/09: (060w) +131.8%, 04/09: (073w) +111.4%, 07/09: (085w) +098.1%, 10/09: (099w) +086.7%
If Wii sales stabilize, PS3 sales increases needed to pass Wii by...
01/08: (008w) +1072.%, 04/08: (021w) +498.4%, 07/08: (034w) +363.4%, 10/08: (047w) +303.1%
01/09: (060w) +269.0%, 04/09: (073w) +246.9%, 07/09: (085w) +232.6%, 10/09: (099w) +220.3%
If PS2 sales freeze, Wii sales increases needed to pass PS2 (as of Mar07, 108.4m) by...
2008: (008w) +4373.8%, 2009: (060w) +0496.5%, 2010: (112w) +0219.6%, 2011: (165w) +0116.9%
2012: (217w) +0064.9%, 2013: (269w) +0033.1%, 2014: (321w) +0011.5%, 2015: (376w) -0004.8%
At +0% it will pass it in 358w, the week ending September 19th, 2014, at an age of 409w (7y44w).
Current age of PS2: 7y37w.

Last update: Week ending November 3, 2007

naznatips on 01 October 2007

That's exactly his point though WhiteoutKing. It's a great thing to bring that to console gaming, but it's not the first time it's been done IN gaming. PCs are a gaming platform too, and Bod is pissed that PCs get ignored by the professional gaming media who take everything that appears in consoles as innovation.



TheBigFatJ on 01 October 2007
Bodhesatva said:

Okay, before I rant, I want to say that I think Halo is a very good game. I'm one of the crowd that thinks: "This is a good game, but it's not really innovative. It just brought to consoles what us PC gamers have enjoyed for years."

So it's always a pet peeve of mine when I hear people give Halo credit for innovating specific play mechanics that I'd been messing with for half a decade.

Today, the new 1up show gives credit to the Bungie devs for implementing the new and original playback option. With just a click of your button, you can record your play and then watch it later. This, apparently, is a great innovation.

Aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Once again, Halo is a very well made game. Thank you for your time.

 

This is a new an interesting innovation. And it is why DooM is bringing FPS to the masses.

Oh wai -- it isn't 1993.  I'm not kidding. This was done before. In 1993.

This is more evidence on the huge pile of crap that suggests 1up loves their xbox 360s in an unnatural way and even a 65% failure rate can't hurt them.



WiteoutKing on 01 October 2007
naznatips said:
That's exactly his point though WhiteoutKing. It's a great thing to bring that to console gaming, but it's not the first time it's been done IN gaming. PCs are a gaming platform too, and Bod is pissed that PCs get ignored by the professional gaming media who take everything that appears in consoles as innovation.

 Ahhh, okay.  I misunderstood.



PS3: 5.51m/51w, avg 108,039/w (up 239)
360: 12.93m/102w, avg 126,764/w (up 625), leads PS3 by 7.42m (up 70k), avg lead 18,725/w (up 386)
Wii: 13.52m/51w, avg 265,098/w (dn 1,102), leads PS3 by 8.01m (up 90k), avg lead 157,059/w (dn 1,341)

If 360 sales stabilize, PS3 sales increases needed to pass 360 by...
01/08: (008w) +875.8%, 04/08: (021w) +344.4%, 07/08: (034w) +219.3%, 10/08: (047w) +163.5%
01/09: (060w) +131.8%, 04/09: (073w) +111.4%, 07/09: (085w) +098.1%, 10/09: (099w) +086.7%
If Wii sales stabilize, PS3 sales increases needed to pass Wii by...
01/08: (008w) +1072.%, 04/08: (021w) +498.4%, 07/08: (034w) +363.4%, 10/08: (047w) +303.1%
01/09: (060w) +269.0%, 04/09: (073w) +246.9%, 07/09: (085w) +232.6%, 10/09: (099w) +220.3%
If PS2 sales freeze, Wii sales increases needed to pass PS2 (as of Mar07, 108.4m) by...
2008: (008w) +4373.8%, 2009: (060w) +0496.5%, 2010: (112w) +0219.6%, 2011: (165w) +0116.9%
2012: (217w) +0064.9%, 2013: (269w) +0033.1%, 2014: (321w) +0011.5%, 2015: (376w) -0004.8%
At +0% it will pass it in 358w, the week ending September 19th, 2014, at an age of 409w (7y44w).
Current age of PS2: 7y37w.

Last update: Week ending November 3, 2007

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hunter_alien on 01 October 2007
fazz said:

Ok people, what was that lesson we should ALL know by now?

NEVER TAKE 1UP SERIOUSLY. THEY ARE ALMOST A JOKE SITE.

"1up, I want you to meet my friend Fraps. Mr. Fraps, this is 1up."

I'm with you on this one Bods, even when I think Halo 3 is a very well produced game, it's nothing amazing or innovative (the massive marketing campaign doesn't counts). But still is a good game.


 Count me in to : good game , but no DOOM revolution here :?



Vote the Mayor for Mayor!

Morgyn on 01 October 2007

any source or quake based game has had the "record" option for nearly a decade, the battlefield series had battlecam.. its nothing new.



naznatips on 01 October 2007

Yeah, it's not that Halo 3 isn't a great game, and it's not that they shouldn't be credited for bringing these things into console gaming. It's a very important thing to bring these things to console gamers. The problem is that PC gaming just gets passed over by the media as if it never existed. The innovations it brings into gaming get ignored.



choirsoftheeye on 01 October 2007
Dodece said:
You have to be realistic in your assessment about knowledge and ignorance. Unfortunately not every person who is going to venture a opinion is going to have played every single game in a genre. You can try, but you will not have much of a life. So everyone on these forums is going to have missed a few games. The sad truth is just about every idea is going to have been tried in some game or another at some point.

Basically for every example you site like counterstrike or half life. There was probably an even earlier game that had the same idea. Should you be shamed for ignorance. Should someone come in rub it in your face. You might say Counterstrike and someone else comes in and says true, but you realize they stole that from Faceball.

The Halo series has a lot of innovative features, and more specifically popularized many features that could be found here and there in other games. Thats how progress is made. What is innovative is the specific little gimmicks, and the way the entire game was packaged. You would not find all the Halo elements in another game. You found them in a dozen different games. Bungie was innovative in that they compiled the best ideas, and proceeded to polish them out.

What is very interesting is the component of the logic that is most often ignored. What was the developers intent. For example the man cannon is quite similar to the cannon in Mario 64. While the cannon in 64 was designed for the purposes of getting Mario to another hidden area. The cannon in Halo 3 will take you farther into a battle field at the risk you will get shot in flight. The same basic concept with radically different reasons.

Basically you can whittle the innovation out of anything based on arbitrary standards that you yourself set. Eventually you get to the point where everything is a rip off of something built two thousand years ago, and because in some twisted logic it is kind of similar. The newest thing cannot be innovative.

Innovative is a relative term, but personally I define innovative as not sharing more then fifty percent of the constituent mechanics with any other game. That would apply to Halo. Sure it has similarities to concepts found in dozens of games, but it is not very similar to any of them. Halo is a dynamic and different experience. High lighting the effect that having a simple jump, or dropping tanks into a multiplayer map can do to an experience. A handful of small difference can have a radical result on how a game is played.

Remember when you nitpick you also leave yourself open to counterpoints. Eventually your going to get chased down to a pong, or a Super Mario Bros. You know since they share one single element with a game you claim to be innovative. Innovation is just as much in presentation as it is in the fine details.

 I disagree on several levels:

 1. He's criticizing 1up, supposedly one of the top 10 or so gaming websites.  They aren't "every person" they're video game journalists, and they're paid to write about video games.  As a result, a fairly comprehensive understanding of video game history should be baseline expected.

2.  Gathering the best features of other games isn't innovative.  Regardless of how worthwhile that is, or what value you place on innovation, that is NOT innovation.  Look up the definiton of the word.

3. You're taking general points and applying sophistry to have the end results be that which you desire them to be: Just because many elements of the Halo series can be traced to other games doesn't mean those elements can be traced further back.  And just because everyone doesn't know where every element came from doesn't mean that those elements were never innovated, or that they came from pong.  These vague generalities are too anecdotal to prove any overarching abstract concept, and have little or no direct bearing on Halo.

 An argument about the general worth of innovation might be more intelligent.