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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony 1st party: GOW3 and The last Guardian 1080P at launch

Slimebeast said:
Torillian said:
Slimebeast said:
The Last Guardian looks so beautiful. But I'm afraid it will be very linear, just because Ico are so eager to tell their story to the player.

But so were Ico and SotC.  If you're looking for a WRPG or open world game you're of course going to be dissapointed.


Well, of course I cant expect anything near open world. But Im thinking... isnt there at least some freedom in SotC compared to ICO?

(In SotC, can you explore with the horse, like go off path anything? Or go back and forth between the monster sites? Can u go to the monsters in free order or is all of them in a set order?)

They're in a set order.  Mostly, I believe, games struggle with narrative and freedom at the same time.  Take GTA IV - because you can, to an extent, mix up the mission order, you can produce frankly ridiculous narrative order.  If you want to built a narrative there has to be guidance (so far as I can see).  I love the idea of open world myself, and enjoy such games, but for the life of me I just can't see a way out of the linear narrative barrier.  Take titles like Oblivion and Fallout 3 - great open world, but would each titles main antagonists really just put their invasion plans on hold every time I want to wander around the world ignoring the plot?  Nope.

I sometimes feel titles like Olbivion, etc. would be better without a central narrative at all.  A flexible world with changing factions and nothing but side quests to me would actually feel and play better.  I feel too many games feel they have to have a central plot or narrative - and it's not the case.  ICO and SOTC contain some of the best (if simple) narratives and evokation of theme in any game I've played - and its because that's their focus.  I expect more of the same from Last Guardian - but their needs to be a trade of in other areas to get that focus.

Speaking of open world, thanks for the tip on Far Cry 2 - I'm enjoying it (even if it does have some flaws) as another excercise in that area.  If you have a PS3 inFamous is another interesting hybrid of open world and central narrative (even if it shares the same issues as Oblivion, etc. with a central plot happy to wait for you to get up to other stuff yourself).  It's setting and approach does make this seem more reasonable (sorry for pun) than most such titles though.

 

 

 



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

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Reasonable said:
Slimebeast said:
Torillian said:
Slimebeast said:
The Last Guardian looks so beautiful. But I'm afraid it will be very linear, just because Ico are so eager to tell their story to the player.

But so were Ico and SotC.  If you're looking for a WRPG or open world game you're of course going to be dissapointed.


Well, of course I cant expect anything near open world. But Im thinking... isnt there at least some freedom in SotC compared to ICO?

(In SotC, can you explore with the horse, like go off path anything? Or go back and forth between the monster sites? Can u go to the monsters in free order or is all of them in a set order?)

They're in a set order.  Mostly, I believe, games struggle with narrative and freedom at the same time.  Take GTA IV - because you can, to an extent, mix up the mission order, you can produce frankly ridiculous narrative order.  If you want to built a narrative there has to be guidance (so far as I can see).  I love the idea of open world myself, and enjoy such games, but for the life of me I just can't see a way out of the linear narrative barrier.  Take titles like Oblivion and Fallout 3 - great open world, but would each titles main antagonists really just put their invasion plans on hold every time I want to wander around the world ignoring the plot?  Nope.

I sometimes feel titles like Olbivion, etc. would be better without a central narrative at all.  A flexible world with changing factions and nothing but side quests to me would actually feel and play better.  I feel too many games feel they have to have a central plot or narrative - and it's not the case.  ICO and SOTC contain some of the best (if simple) narratives and evokation of theme in any game I've played - and its because that's their focus.  I expect more of the same from Last Guardian - but their needs to be a trade of in other areas to get that focus.

Speaking of open world, thanks for the tip on Far Cry 2 - I'm enjoying it (even if it does have some flaws) as another excercise in that area.  If you have a PS3 inFamous is another interesting hybrid of open world and central narrative (even if it shares the same issues as Oblivion, etc. with a central plot happy to wait for you to get up to other stuff yourself).  It's setting and approach does make this seem more reasonable (sorry for pun) than most such titles though.

 

 

 

Great post, and for most parts I agree. And game-makers seem to agree as well apparently, because they so often choose the linear path. Sandbox games are still uncommon IMO.

But I disagree about Oblivion. I think the narrative in Oblivion works perfectly because I think the player's imagination fills in the gaps or inconsistencies between the storyline and free-roam exploration.

Damn, I love open world/sandbox gameplay. I wish... like a game like The Last Guardian, I would love it to be in an open world setting (would need hard work by the dev but it could be done). I mean I love the last scene where the rat monster lies in the grass beside the boy, and the wind is blowing on the foilage... to be able to set off and walk around and explore in such a beautiftul wonder landscape would be amazing.



Slimebeast said:
Reasonable said:
Slimebeast said:
Torillian said:
Slimebeast said:
The Last Guardian looks so beautiful. But I'm afraid it will be very linear, just because Ico are so eager to tell their story to the player.

But so were Ico and SotC.  If you're looking for a WRPG or open world game you're of course going to be dissapointed.


Well, of course I cant expect anything near open world. But Im thinking... isnt there at least some freedom in SotC compared to ICO?

(In SotC, can you explore with the horse, like go off path anything? Or go back and forth between the monster sites? Can u go to the monsters in free order or is all of them in a set order?)

They're in a set order.  Mostly, I believe, games struggle with narrative and freedom at the same time.  Take GTA IV - because you can, to an extent, mix up the mission order, you can produce frankly ridiculous narrative order.  If you want to built a narrative there has to be guidance (so far as I can see).  I love the idea of open world myself, and enjoy such games, but for the life of me I just can't see a way out of the linear narrative barrier.  Take titles like Oblivion and Fallout 3 - great open world, but would each titles main antagonists really just put their invasion plans on hold every time I want to wander around the world ignoring the plot?  Nope.

I sometimes feel titles like Olbivion, etc. would be better without a central narrative at all.  A flexible world with changing factions and nothing but side quests to me would actually feel and play better.  I feel too many games feel they have to have a central plot or narrative - and it's not the case.  ICO and SOTC contain some of the best (if simple) narratives and evokation of theme in any game I've played - and its because that's their focus.  I expect more of the same from Last Guardian - but their needs to be a trade of in other areas to get that focus.

Speaking of open world, thanks for the tip on Far Cry 2 - I'm enjoying it (even if it does have some flaws) as another excercise in that area.  If you have a PS3 inFamous is another interesting hybrid of open world and central narrative (even if it shares the same issues as Oblivion, etc. with a central plot happy to wait for you to get up to other stuff yourself).  It's setting and approach does make this seem more reasonable (sorry for pun) than most such titles though.

 

 

 

Great post, and for most parts I agree. And game-makers seem to agree as well apparently, because they so often choose the linear path. Sandbox games are still uncommon IMO.

But I disagree about Oblivion. I think the narrative in Oblivion works perfectly because I think the player's imagination fills in the gaps or inconsistencies between the storyline and free-roam exploration.

Damn, I love open world/sandbox gameplay. I wish... like a game like The Last Guardian, I would love it to be in an open world setting (would need hard work by the dev but it could be done). I mean I love the last scene where the rat monster lies in the grass beside the boy, and the wind is blowing on the foilage... to be able to set off and walk around and explore in such a beautiftul wonder landscape would be amazing.

 

I should note that, for the most part as far as I can remember - SOTC does have an open world in that from the get go you can go anywhere - even to where each Colossus is.  However if you go at the wrong time the Colossus simply isn't there to fight you.  However you can explore, find interesting little spots, etc.

For example there are a few small 'oasis' dotted around with turtles, fish, etc.   No real reason but they are very ambient.  It works in that you really get into the head of your character.  Wandering lost, mulling over the next Colossus you must confront, alone save for your horse, some scattered animals and the crumbling ruins that haunt the landscape.  I know many would find it boring, but I personally spent ages just riding around, marvelling that this world felt real.  It had a mammoth sense of place beyond Oblivion, etc. (for me) due to the amazing art direction and consistency.

It's interesting to note that originally SOTC was to feature small monsters, etc. and other standard stuff to be fought/found as you wandered around - but these were cut from the title (even though the ability to swing a sword remains).  The game is probably less appealing to some as a result, and less standard - but I think the choice was a brave and correct one for the title.

As a result you really can just explore, the wind in your hair, wondering what ruins lie around the next hill, etc.  I have to say just standing by a cliffside in SOTC, listening to the ambient sounds, is simply astonishing in terms of atmosphere.

I do enjoy standard gameplay, with lots of action and incident, but both ICO and SOTC have this whole other air about them that I'd advise you to try and experience.  ICO is almost open world too, in that the castle it takes place in is consistent and you can wander at will once you've accessed an area.  Neither title features levels or loading - everything is seamless after the initial boot up.  Quite amazing.

 



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

the last guardian is my no1 game for 2010



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