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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - 360 maxed out, PlayStation3 isn't.

Zizzla_Rachet on 07 June 2009

This in game pic Blows away anything EA has done on Xbox 360 and rivals uncharted series

 



 



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Sardauk on 07 June 2009

Guys,

 

If you check the top 15 list of the 360 AND the PS3.. EA is nowhere !

They start to appear at the bottom of the 20, 25 positions of the lists with ... Sports games.

 

They have NO significant graphical powerhouse game on both consoles.... so who are they to judge the work accomplished by the competition ?

 



 

Evan Wells (Uncharted 2): I think the differences that you see between any two games has much more to do with the developer than whether it’s on the Xbox or PS3.

Reasonable on 07 June 2009
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Reasonable said:
NightAntilli said:
If we look at the performance of Call of Duty 4 on both systems, and also look at the performance of World at War on both systems, the X360 has less framedrops and framerate issues than the PS3. And now you are gonna tell me that the X360 is being maxed out and the PS3 is not?

-______________-

And oh, before anyone starts saying I have no proof for those framerate stuff...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/call-of-duty-4-engine-analysis

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/call-of-duty-world-at-war-engine-analysis

As I pointed out, using CoD4 as an exmaple, maxed out is more about the engine (or code) and how well (or not) its optimized and suits the console.  Maxed out is meaningless the way its normally bandied about.  Using CoD4 engine I could max out (given access to the level editor) both consoles easily.

I have to say your comparison is also flawed and not the way to go - its factual but tells us more about the relative coding skills (very good in both cases I'd argue) of IW and the relative suitability of their engine for each console.  Clearly, I would presume given IW roots in PC coding and engines, the engine slightly favours the 360 and clearly IW skills at that point would slightly favour the 360.  As you state the 360 version is slightly superior to the PS3 for framerate, etc. (in fact most third partiy titles, particularly those from developers with strong PC roots) tend to and will continue to tend to run slightly (emphasis on slightly) better on 360.  I'm playing Red Faction on PS3 and it looks great, but I'd bet that the 360 version has slightly better AA and framerate (again emphasis on slightly).

What I find funny about all these arguements is that you could max out both consoles even with a game with graphics quality of a PS2 title if you wanted to.

I wish people would realize that consoles have an theoritical upper limit and its always in fairly easy reach - the challenge is writing very well optimized code that, ideally, has been designed specifically for the architecture of each console (which is why devs didn't and too an extent still don't like how different the archtectures of the 2 HD consoles are).  That's why almost always the absolute best looking titles are exclusive and/or based on console specific engines.

I'd argue that the most graphically impressive titles to date have slightly edged to the PS3 (I'm thinking Uncharted and Killzone 2 mainly here and Uncharted 2) but I believe that's more due to each having been built from the ground up, at serious expense, for the console.  The best looking 360 title I've played is Gears 2, but I noticed it had some slight issues with texture pop-in, etc down to the fact that while fantastically optimized for 360 it was nonetheless built on a non-specific engine.  I expect titles like Forza 3, etc. to show 360 in a fantastic light, and a lot of that will be down to the engine being so specific to the console, plus well optimized.

Funnily enough, overall for the traditional home of graphical posturing (FPS and TPS) the PS3 has more titles on custom engines to the console than 360 (so far as I am aware, as due to nature of 360 many developers are clearly tempted to go middleware on the engine with U3 or similar engine).  Of course the 360 architecture lends itself to this (while the PS3 does not) so that choice makes perfect sense.

In the end both are really powerful consoles, I'd argue probably about even graphically when all is said and done, with the PS3 having a moderate (and probably mostly unexploited) advantage in potentially processing power with the 360 having (for some developers) an advantage in architecute familiarty and ease of coding.

Hopefully soon we'll see what the latest, console friendly tech from ID and Crytek looks like on the Hd consoles - that should be interesting.

 

If you think that's funny you should watch E3 2005 were sony has Epic and Nvidia take the stage to brag how the Unreal Engine 3 will provide unrivaled Graphics at the ps3's luanch......The Event's that followed = *Face Palm*

Don't use the Unreal Engine to say that 360 games are not impressive...

Take a look at Splinter Cell Conviction and Alan Wake....Those two game prove that PS3 can do what it wants and that the 360 does not need to be viewed as the graphics king....

How did I say 360 games weren't impressive?  Also, I have no idea how you got to the conclusion I'm using the Unreal Engine to say 360 games aren't impressive.  And what does this mean?

Take a look at Splinter Cell Conviction and Alan Wake....Those two game prove that PS3 can do what it wants and that the 360 does not need to be viewed as the graphics king....

You seem yourself to be saying the 360 isn't the graphics king (which isn't what I'm stating at all).  Can you explain what that last sentance was meant to say?

 

 



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

Stan85 on 07 June 2009
Bitmap Frogs said:
XxXProphecyXxX said:
Here we go again

a random fanboy logic > developers....YIKES!

 

Cool! 

Because there have been developers going on the record saying the PS3 is a waste to work on since due to the architecture none of the techniques developed are to be used on the homogenous many-core future we are moving to. Other developers have criticized the PS3 on the basis of weak GPU, bottlenecks in the design and overall archictural issues on the system, dismissing it as something poorly designed. Other developers dismiss the Cell CPU as not appropiate for game code and a huge hurdle for the PS3.

You backing those developers, right? Oh you mean you only back statements depending wether they suit you or not?

A little... Owned ?!?!



FKNetwork on 07 June 2009
bigdom2786 said:

Third....people tend to forget that the Wii is king....

What is this "Wii" you speak about?



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NightAntilli on 07 June 2009
MikeB said:
NightAntilli said:
If we look at the performance of Call of Duty 4 on both systems, and also look at the performance of World at War on both systems, the X360 has less framedrops and framerate issues than the PS3. And now you are gonna tell me that the X360 is being maxed out and the PS3 is not?

-______________-

And oh, before anyone starts saying I have no proof for those framerate stuff...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/call-of-duty-4-engine-analysis

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/call-of-duty-world-at-war-engine-analysis

Eurogamer (UK) is a biased source (the worst one available within the mainstream gaming press, like I said so even long before they started their 360 vs PS3 propaganda articles). I know World of War performs solidly on my PS3. With regard to COD4 devs have claimed the PS3 version has a slight edge over the 360 version, but I think those games although development was geared at the XBox 360 first and foremost are practically identical.

Even if the XBox 360 version would have had a slight edge, it does not mean it maxed out the PS3 hardware. As we know even some early PS3 exclusives did not use the SPUs at all (extremely fast processors, the bulk of the Cell's performance). With regard to the 360 we know early launch games already tapped the bulk of the Xenon's CPU resources from all 3 cores.

So, the maturity and optimisation of a games engine can determine the amount of yet untapped resources. And of course the PS3 has a lot more resources available (like 8 processor Cell, 50 GB Blu-Ray discs, default harddrive, etc), so requires far more effort to "max out".

You lost all credibility right there. Unlike other websites and people like you, they ALWAYS back up their claims by videos, zoom ins, framerates, etc. You are right on some things, but most you are not. The X360 is far from being maxed out. Like Reasonable said, it all has to do with the engines..

I was gonna give you the benefit of the doubt but now I know you're a PS3 lover and you want the X360 to be maxed out, instead of looking at it obectively. Reasonable is one of the few in here that actually knows what he's talking about.



Truth does not fear investigation

Squilliam on 07 June 2009

^ Reasonable is one of the few in here who are reasonable. Though I have caught him being unreasonable a few times.



Tease.

Carl on 07 June 2009
Zizzla_Rachet said:
libellule said:
eliasg said:
libellule said:
Most TECHNICALLY  impressive console game

Unchartred 2 + KZ 2 + Splinter Cell :Conviction + Alan Wake + Forza 3 + Lost Planet 2 + Heavy Rain

Both on PS3 and XBOX360, it is time to accept it now ...

 

 

EDITED

I m sorry for the Xbox360 ...

Uncharted 2 + KZ2 = Happy sony fans and happy gamers.

Most of Xbox 360 exclusive games = Happy Gamers.... and happy MS fans

Get a clue....Multiplatform games sell more on 360 we don't need to say the graphics in a games are unrivaled. Although RE5 and SF4, arguably the biggest multiplat titles of the year, sold more on PS3. Res5 is also arguably the best looking multiplat title of the year, if not ever.

You act like Uncharted sold over 3 mil...and that KZ2 sold over 2 milll Uncharted wont reach it, but sold well for a new IP... KZ2 will make it to 2Million eventually, its looking to have good legs so far.

Uncharted was bundled heavily...so that is why it's sales are what they are...Once Killzone 2 get's bundle it will look like it had decent sales...Not enough PS3 fans cared about these games.....Especially not in Japan.... Forza 2...

First Week sales for Uncharted 133k...Sure these are good numers if you want them to e..ut for a PS3 exclusive they are kinda low....and the KillZone one's are not to different.... First week sales dont determine overall sales. Uncharted is a good example of this.

Don't feel sorry for the second place console...it makes you look stupid... this part i agree on.

 



                            

Zizzla_Rachet on 07 June 2009
Reasonable said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Reasonable said:
NightAntilli said:
If we look at the performance of Call of Duty 4 on both systems, and also look at the performance of World at War on both systems, the X360 has less framedrops and framerate issues than the PS3. And now you are gonna tell me that the X360 is being maxed out and the PS3 is not?

-______________-

And oh, before anyone starts saying I have no proof for those framerate stuff...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/call-of-duty-4-engine-analysis

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/call-of-duty-world-at-war-engine-analysis

As I pointed out, using CoD4 as an exmaple, maxed out is more about the engine (or code) and how well (or not) its optimized and suits the console.  Maxed out is meaningless the way its normally bandied about.  Using CoD4 engine I could max out (given access to the level editor) both consoles easily.

I have to say your comparison is also flawed and not the way to go - its factual but tells us more about the relative coding skills (very good in both cases I'd argue) of IW and the relative suitability of their engine for each console.  Clearly, I would presume given IW roots in PC coding and engines, the engine slightly favours the 360 and clearly IW skills at that point would slightly favour the 360.  As you state the 360 version is slightly superior to the PS3 for framerate, etc. (in fact most third partiy titles, particularly those from developers with strong PC roots) tend to and will continue to tend to run slightly (emphasis on slightly) better on 360.  I'm playing Red Faction on PS3 and it looks great, but I'd bet that the 360 version has slightly better AA and framerate (again emphasis on slightly).

What I find funny about all these arguements is that you could max out both consoles even with a game with graphics quality of a PS2 title if you wanted to.

I wish people would realize that consoles have an theoritical upper limit and its always in fairly easy reach - the challenge is writing very well optimized code that, ideally, has been designed specifically for the architecture of each console (which is why devs didn't and too an extent still don't like how different the archtectures of the 2 HD consoles are).  That's why almost always the absolute best looking titles are exclusive and/or based on console specific engines.

I'd argue that the most graphically impressive titles to date have slightly edged to the PS3 (I'm thinking Uncharted and Killzone 2 mainly here and Uncharted 2) but I believe that's more due to each having been built from the ground up, at serious expense, for the console.  The best looking 360 title I've played is Gears 2, but I noticed it had some slight issues with texture pop-in, etc down to the fact that while fantastically optimized for 360 it was nonetheless built on a non-specific engine.  I expect titles like Forza 3, etc. to show 360 in a fantastic light, and a lot of that will be down to the engine being so specific to the console, plus well optimized.

Funnily enough, overall for the traditional home of graphical posturing (FPS and TPS) the PS3 has more titles on custom engines to the console than 360 (so far as I am aware, as due to nature of 360 many developers are clearly tempted to go middleware on the engine with U3 or similar engine).  Of course the 360 architecture lends itself to this (while the PS3 does not) so that choice makes perfect sense.

In the end both are really powerful consoles, I'd argue probably about even graphically when all is said and done, with the PS3 having a moderate (and probably mostly unexploited) advantage in potentially processing power with the 360 having (for some developers) an advantage in architecute familiarty and ease of coding.

Hopefully soon we'll see what the latest, console friendly tech from ID and Crytek looks like on the Hd consoles - that should be interesting.

 

If you think that's funny you should watch E3 2005 were sony has Epic and Nvidia take the stage to brag how the Unreal Engine 3 will provide unrivaled Graphics at the ps3's luanch......The Event's that followed = *Face Palm*

Don't use the Unreal Engine to say that 360 games are not impressive...

Take a look at Splinter Cell Conviction and Alan Wake....Those two game prove that PS3 can do what it wants and that the 360 does not need to be viewed as the graphics king....

How did I say 360 games weren't impressive?  Also, I have no idea how you got to the conclusion I'm using the Unreal Engine to say 360 games aren't impressive.  And what does this mean?

Take a look at Splinter Cell Conviction and Alan Wake....Those two game prove that PS3 can do what it wants and that the 360 does not need to be viewed as the graphics king....

You seem yourself to be saying the 360 isn't the graphics king (which isn't what I'm stating at all).  Can you explain what that last sentance was meant to say?

 

 

 

 

 

 



 



MikeB on 07 June 2009

@ NightAntilli

The X360 is far from being maxed out.


Believe whatever suits you best. But most often (much more so than the average VGChartz member) I do present evidence, whenever I can to support my statements.

you want the X360 to be maxed out


You are plain wrong here, I do not want this at all.

In fact, when Epic games claimed they had maxed out the XBox 360 when original Gears of War was released (which I bought and played through), I stated that I doubted that what they claimed was actually true.

To some extend it may have been correct, like tapping all of the available Xenon resources (I refer to the diagram for 360 launch games as shared by me earlier within this thread). But I pointed towards the option to perform deep low-level optimisations.

Also even if maxed out for certain gaming functions, this is not entirely a precise science. For instance you can take away some stuff here and there to allow to add things here and there elsewhere with regard to other game engine functions. For example less onscreen enemies can allow for a higher quality for the remaining characters. Or for example by having less varierty of textures (and reuse them a lot throughout the game) this will require less storage space, thus allowing for higher quality textures on a disc.

In addition there's art design and style, although technical issues affect this. Good art design and smart tricks (smoke and mirror effects) can result in better looking games than games based on superior game engine technology.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales