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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Article: Why Nintendo is always ‘doomed’

bardicverse said:

Garcian, Ive been around longer than Star Wars movies have. I lived with the Atari 2600, ColecoVision, etc. At the time of the NES, arcades were still stuck in Atari Mode - simple games that just got harder and harder each level due to more enemies that moved faster. The core market grew with games like Metroid and Zelda, which alienated the casual gamer due to the amount of length, diverse maps, etc. From the industry side, your point is inverted, as industry vets cite the NES as the first the world has seen of "hardcore" gaming.  Arcades were too simplistic compared to the large scale design that NES games had.

In essence, its more like Nintendo has come full circle bringing the era of core console gaming to the world and looping back to the casual, arcade-ish style of gaming that existed before the NES

 

 

That's ridiculous, not to mention an absurd attempt at revisionist history. The "core market" didn't just spring up from thin air - and it certainly didn't stem from Metroid and Zelda, at least not immediately.

In actuality, Zelda and Metroid were the "casual games" of the day. Unlike arcade games, where you may have had to play for hours on end due to their endless length and highly competitive nature, you could play Zelda and Metroid for short bursts. Remember that the former's battery save and the latter's password feature were considered revolutionary for their time, for no other reason than the fact that they made the games more accessible.

In arcade games, there were no save features. Once you ran out of lives, you started from the beginning. Mario, Metroid, Zelda, and their immediate descendants revolutionized game design by making games less like Groundhog Day (the Bill Murray movie), and more like reading storybooks or watching movies. We take it for granted today, but the ability to use a "bookmark" to save your place in games was perhaps the greatest innovation in game accessibility ever created, and the NES started it. Even Super Mario Bros., lest you forget, included the semi-hidden "warp zones" so that players could quickly bypass levels that they had already beaten, should they so choose.

The NES "alienated the casual gamer?" Bollocks; it created the next generation of the casual gamer. The type of person who would never touch a Pac-Man controller, but who would gladly pick up a novel or watch a movie on their newfangled VCR, suddenly wanted a shot at Zelda because they could actually beat it with a small amount of time invested here and there. They felt like they were accomplishing something, not unlike engaging themselves in any other form of entertainment, rather than simply beating their heads against a brick wall for a high score that would be beaten tenfold by John Q. Nerdly down at the arcade anyway.

But then, of course, the gaming audience is and has always been a dialectic cycle. The early arcade "casuals" became the quarter-popping, high-score-chasing "hardcore," NES "casuals" became the PS2 "hardcore," and now the tides are shifting again.



"'Casual games' are something the 'Game Industry' invented to explain away the Wii success instead of actually listening or looking at what Nintendo did. There is no 'casual strategy' from Nintendo. 'Accessible strategy', yes, but ‘casual gamers’ is just the 'Game Industry''s polite way of saying what they feel: 'retarded gamers'."

 -Sean Malstrom

 

 

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disolitude said:
Bobbuffalo said:
disolitude said:

Sony and even ms first party efforts are much better than nintendos for the last year or two. They may not produce the same sales as nintendos products but quality is there...


Other than that the article is right...

Besides Gears of wars, Halo, Fable on the xbox360 and Killzone and........on the PS3 what else do they offer?

Nintendo on the other hand released Zelda, Mario, smash bros, fire emblem, metroid, new super mario bros and the mega succesful Mario kart wii and wii fit.

You can't deny that Nintendo is and always be the company with their strongest 1st party.

 

You are listing every nintendo published game in the last 2 years. You missed on xbox 360 PGR4 Forza 2 crackdown

Sony Motorstorm 1 & 2, Warhawk, Uncharted

Lot more variety is found at Ms and Sony than at nintendos first party efforts.

 

 

From where I see it, you have LESS variety. Where is your Wii Fit? Where is your electroplankton? Outside of one game every 5 years that is "different", MS and Sony put out standard games in standard genres: Motorstorm 1& 2, Warhawk, Uncharted.

 

Where is your Excitebots, Marioparty, Pikmin, Brain Age, and tons of other games that are uniquely found on Nintendo platforms?

 

Nintendo first party games cover every genre of gaming, and those which are not offered on other platforms. So saying there is "more variety" on the other systems is silly. More variety of shooters, sure. But not more variety of games.

 

And overall other first party efforts do not have the same critical acclaim of Nintendo properties, and no where even close in terms of sales numbers, thanks to the quality of those games creating fans that will stay with Nintendo for years.

 



 

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@disolitude - "Wii is a gamecube 1.5 with waggle control scheme..." jesuschrist did you use THE MOST PATHETIC EXCUSE the wii haters use?

Note to self: ignore this troll



Just one more thing? Why hasn't Capcom made another Power Stone? I loved those 2 games for DC back in the day. I think I played that even before trying Smash. I preferred those games over the original Smash.



disolitude said:
ClaudeLv250 said:
chasmatic12 said:
disolitude said:
Bobbuffalo said:
disolitude said:

Sony and even ms first party efforts are much better than nintendos for the last year or two. They may not produce the same sales as nintendos products but quality is there...


Other than that the article is right...

Besides Gears of wars, Halo, Fable on the xbox360 and Killzone and........on the PS3 what else do they offer?

Nintendo on the other hand released Zelda, Mario, smash bros, fire emblem, metroid, new super mario bros and the mega succesful Mario kart wii and wii fit.

You can't deny that Nintendo is and always be the company with their strongest 1st party.

 

You are listing every nintendo published game in the last 2 years. You missed on xbox 360 PGR4 Forza 2 crackdown

Sony Motorstorm 1 & 2, Warhawk, Uncharted

Lot more variety is found at Ms and Sony than at nintendos first party efforts.


A lot more variety? If an action/adventure, platformer, fighter, srpg, first person shooter/adventure, 2D platformer, racer, and fitness sim isn't variety, than God help us all.

This.

Nintendo has first party everything covered. Quality, sales, variety, etc.

I am not a sony spokesperson so I can't talk for sony but take a look at MS published developed games

3rd person shooter - Gears, Gears 2

Sandbox - Crackdown

Racing -PGR3, PGR4, Forza 2

Action/Adventure - Ninja Blade, Ninja Gaiden 2, Too Human

RPG - Mass Effect, Fable 2, Lost Oddisey, Blue Dragon

FPS - Halo 3, Perfect Dark Zero

Strategy - Halo Wars

Platformer - Banj Nuts and bolts, Kameo

PArty - Lips, Scene it

Simulation - Viva Pinata, Viva Pinata 2.

Some of these obviously have great sales and some dont. Nintendo does have great sales as I stated in the previous statement. But I am speaking in the last year and a half or 2 years... Ever since Mario Glaxy, nintendo has been on a quiet mode and the products they released have sold well but have not been up to par with the other 2 consoles first party offerings...I mean, Smash Brothers and maybe Mario Kart wii are the only 2 nintendo published games I'd even consider purchasing.

Also just because there is 1 FPS game (which isn't an FPS at all but an FPA) you people think Nintendo has the genre "covered"? Give me a break.

 

I thought we are talking about first party, a lot of those are not first party, I know games lol. You are thinking published, which some of them are even going to be on PS3, most of those are not 1st party games O_O. you are way way off.



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Bobbuffalo said:
@disolitude - "Wii is a gamecube 1.5 with waggle control scheme..." jesuschrist did you use THE MOST PATHETIC EXCUSE the wii haters use?

Note to self: ignore this troll

Prove me wrong... visuals are pretty similar, online is tacked on in most basic mode if available, sounds is...well still "Whoopie", experience is not the same...but its cause of motion controls/balance board. Take that away and what are you left with...GC ports of resident evil? And nitnendo games that probably could have come out for the gamecube (and some like Zelda did).

Im not here to start a war that Wii = GC X 1.5...im just syaing that nintendo really hasn't done anything different games wise this gen. They have with accessories, so the article saying that first party games sell wii is wrong...



Shanobi said:
disolitude said:
Bobbuffalo said:
disolitude said:

Sony and even ms first party efforts are much better than nintendos for the last year or two. They may not produce the same sales as nintendos products but quality is there...


Other than that the article is right...

Besides Gears of wars, Halo, Fable on the xbox360 and Killzone and........on the PS3 what else do they offer?

Nintendo on the other hand released Zelda, Mario, smash bros, fire emblem, metroid, new super mario bros and the mega succesful Mario kart wii and wii fit.

You can't deny that Nintendo is and always be the company with their strongest 1st party.

 

You are listing every nintendo published game in the last 2 years. You missed on xbox 360 PGR4 Forza 2 crackdown

Sony Motorstorm 1 & 2, Warhawk, Uncharted

Lot more variety is found at Ms and Sony than at nintendos first party efforts.

 

 

From where I see it, you have LESS variety. Where is your Wii Fit? Where is your electroplankton? Outside of one game every 5 years that is "different", MS and Sony put out standard games in standard genres: Motorstorm 1& 2, Warhawk, Uncharted.

 

Where is your Excitebots, Marioparty, Pikmin, Brain Age, and tons of other games that are uniquely found on Nintendo platforms?

 

Nintendo first party games cover every genre of gaming, and those which are not offered on other platforms. So saying there is "more variety" on the other systems is silly. More variety of shooters, sure. But not more variety of games.

 

And overall other first party efforts do not have the same critical acclaim of Nintendo properties, and no where even close in terms of sales numbers, thanks to the quality of those games creating fans that will stay with Nintendo for years.

 

Have you played Uncharted? How about Motorstorm? And the fact you put Warhawk in the same sentence as "standard genres" shows you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. When you've never played the games, don't comment on them. Warhawk, despite its average graphics, is on of the unique current generation games out for consoles. Please, name a game on the Wii that plays like Warhawk in any way.

 

 



                                   

dahuman said:
disolitude said:
ClaudeLv250 said:
chasmatic12 said:
disolitude said:
Bobbuffalo said:
disolitude said:

Sony and even ms first party efforts are much better than nintendos for the last year or two. They may not produce the same sales as nintendos products but quality is there...


Other than that the article is right...

Besides Gears of wars, Halo, Fable on the xbox360 and Killzone and........on the PS3 what else do they offer?

Nintendo on the other hand released Zelda, Mario, smash bros, fire emblem, metroid, new super mario bros and the mega succesful Mario kart wii and wii fit.

You can't deny that Nintendo is and always be the company with their strongest 1st party.

 

You are listing every nintendo published game in the last 2 years. You missed on xbox 360 PGR4 Forza 2 crackdown

Sony Motorstorm 1 & 2, Warhawk, Uncharted

Lot more variety is found at Ms and Sony than at nintendos first party efforts.


A lot more variety? If an action/adventure, platformer, fighter, srpg, first person shooter/adventure, 2D platformer, racer, and fitness sim isn't variety, than God help us all.

This.

Nintendo has first party everything covered. Quality, sales, variety, etc.

I am not a sony spokesperson so I can't talk for sony but take a look at MS published developed games

3rd person shooter - Gears, Gears 2

Sandbox - Crackdown

Racing -PGR3, PGR4, Forza 2

Action/Adventure - Ninja Blade, Ninja Gaiden 2, Too Human

RPG - Mass Effect, Fable 2, Lost Oddisey, Blue Dragon

FPS - Halo 3, Perfect Dark Zero

Strategy - Halo Wars

Platformer - Banj Nuts and bolts, Kameo

PArty - Lips, Scene it

Simulation - Viva Pinata, Viva Pinata 2.

Some of these obviously have great sales and some dont. Nintendo does have great sales as I stated in the previous statement. But I am speaking in the last year and a half or 2 years... Ever since Mario Glaxy, nintendo has been on a quiet mode and the products they released have sold well but have not been up to par with the other 2 consoles first party offerings...I mean, Smash Brothers and maybe Mario Kart wii are the only 2 nintendo published games I'd even consider purchasing.

Also just because there is 1 FPS game (which isn't an FPS at all but an FPA) you people think Nintendo has the genre "covered"? Give me a break.

 

I thought we are talking about first party, a lot of those are not first party, I know games lol. You are thinking published, which some of them are even going to be on PS3, most of those are not 1st party games O_O. you are way way off.

You are cherry picking. The talk here is about sales. I bought a 360 to play halo online, to play gears 2 and to kick ass in ninja gaiden 2.

Most new Wii owners bought the wii because of this new motion control scheme they tried and were very impressed with while playing the same old Mario Kart.

 



disolitude said:
Bobbuffalo said:
@disolitude - "Wii is a gamecube 1.5 with waggle control scheme..." jesuschrist did you use THE MOST PATHETIC EXCUSE the wii haters use?

Note to self: ignore this troll

Prove me wrong... visuals are pretty similar, online is tacked on in most basic mode if available, sounds is...well still "Whoopie", experience is not the same...but its cause of motion controls/balance board. Take that away and what are you left with...GC ports of resident evil? And nitnendo games that probably could have come out for the gamecube (and some like Zelda did).

Im not here to start a war that Wii = GC X 1.5...im just syaing that nintendo really hasn't done anything different games wise this gen. They have with accessories, so the article saying that first party games sell wii is wrong...

theRepublic said:
@disolitude

Hardware is nothing without software. It's games like Wii Sports, Wii Fit, and Mario Kart that are driving the success of the Wii.


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cherry picking or not, isn't it kind of off topic by now? you will just change whatever reply to make it seem like the Wii has inferior products anyways, if the talk here really is about sales, then what else is there to talk about? Nintendo destroys the competition, the end?