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Forums - Gaming - Traditional Fighters VS Non-traditional Fighters

naznatips said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
naznatips said:

 

Good example. Boots are simple, sturdy, and for slow working men. Ballet and Tap require speed and skill.

 

 

No....thats not what I meant. Tekken requires more skill than SSMB. Thats a childs game, just like Naruto and DBZ. I like playing it at times, but it's no Tekken. To even put it in Tekkens league is an insult. DBZ and Naruto are beat 'em ups, which allow for finishers and evasions based on timed-commands (A very controlled level of gameplay). SSMB is a fun game which can have strategy, but is very simple; just keep raising your opponents hit percentage and they'll fly off in the stratusphere. Tekken has too many levels of players and isn't linear in its point. Tekken is a tournament style fighter, which the best play.....likewise for Street Fighter.

D

 

Well I've never played SSMB and I have no idea what it is or what it plays like, but SSBB is very fast and requires a lot of skill and strategy. The use of the environment and complex physics is something you don't have in technical fighters.

I'm not saying being able to mash buttons and direcitons in rapid succession in order to use your moves isn't something that requires skill. I'm saying it's a silly skill that makes the games that use it silly. A game like Smash requirse skill in timing, strategy, use of the environment, and reaction time. The ability to move your character perfectly and speedily is just as important as the attacks you use. Something not at all true of the slow-moving linear traditional fighters.

To quote myself on the previous page, I want complete control over my character. I want every button (in combination with a direction is fine) to make a specific move, and the depth to come from my adeptness at using those moves quickly and well together. I do not want my moves to be dependent on a silly set of hitting buttons rapidly that have nothing to do with the special attack I'm trying to execute.

 

 

I've been playing SSMB for years and recently Brawl; however, the key to destroying people in that game is knowing which character is stronger and where you are exactly in the level. The game is about who has more kills, which could be achieved in a second. The game requires more skill than the first SSMB, but it's not very different. The type of skill you're talking about in Brawl is much more elementary as opposed to a traditional fighter. Take Soul Calibur for instance, say your opponent wants to knock you out of the ring, you can strafe horizontally to evade a verticle attack with a weapon (has to be split second thinking), leaving them open for your blow. In this instance if they used a horizontal In brawl if you were on a ledge, either you have a much higher chance of being hit whether or not you have skill. If they have a special, get the hell out of their way. It's a very simple concept.

The next thing about Brawl and Tekken or Soul Calibur are separated like this.

Concepts of SSMB: Block, primary attack (A button), One button beat 'em up combo (A button), throw things at people, dodge, Special (B button) and throws. Theres isn't much to work with there. The skill in the game basically comes from timing as you said. You're basically given all the tools in one button, it's just about how you use it that is key.

Tekken: Square and Triangle control the right and left arms, while the X and circle button control the lower limbs alone. Theres strafing, reversals, attacks based on button combinations, string-combos (combos that actually require skill), juggles and more. Things aren't given to you in Tekken. four throws based on your skill (2 for the front of opponents body, another two for the back and players have special throws which they can hit with button combinations)  In Tekken your ability to excel is based upon how quick your reflexes are, anticipation, knowledge of combos, and most importantly there are far more moments in a Tekken tournament when people freeze up, unlike brawl. Sometimes if you aren't sure of yourself, your muscles will get tense and lock up. I've never had that happen to me in Brawl, because win or lose I was having fun in a simplistic manner.

If you want a game where you can control you characters every limb in use for fighting, you're looking at traditional fighters.



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SSBB FC: 5155 2671 4071 elgefe02: "VGChartz's Resident Raving Rabbit"   MKWii:5155-3729-0989

I like the Naruto fighting games on the Wii... Revolution 1 & 2.

That counts as non-traditional, right?



ctk495 said:
iclim4 said:
NFGBlinkAC said:
TruckOSaurus said:
NFGBlinkAC said:
TruckOSaurus said:
NFGBlinkAC said:
xcot said:
you mean to say you can play this well?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfQ4co_r8hE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnufumKmGwQ

i laugh when people say this because you would get anally raped by these people, and probably me too.

Lol, if thats consideed "pro" then I should compete in Brawl because I'd easily destroy them.

Please do and come back to us when you've won a major tournament.

Afraid to get destroyed by someone who doesn't play Brawl competively because of the huge lack of skill it has?

 

First, I'm not a pro. I just like the game a lot. I never went to any tournament.

Second, you said you could destroy Brawl pros, I was merely asking you to back up your claim.

Third, if you want to play me I'd be happy to.

 

Lol, I wasn;t being too serious about the "Afraid" part, but I have played pros before and they're not that much better than me since they play the game 24/7, and I barely play at all.  If I sat down and played comeptively, which I will never do becuase of the lack of skill in the game is, I'd easily win tournaments.

Kinda weird, but I still recall you being the Ike user who talks about mind games.
I say play with truck(peach user) and see how well you measure up.
I can vouch for truck, he's a non competitive SSBB player who merely plays for the fun of it.
And as an Ike mainer a tekken player and a fellow Suiko fan, my vouches should mean a lot. =P
Hell, with how much we have in common I'm qualified to hold your children. ^_^

Iclim is right I have been playing smash for a year and I am sure that any pro will destroy me.They just have much more experience it will take me years to equal their skill.

 

Would love to play against you guys, but I don't own a Wii.  When I say "lack of skill in the game", I literally mean lack of skill since the only major skill part in the game is mind reading your opponent.  If you can read your opponent in any fighter, it can give you the advantage in a fight, but that doesn't guarantee a Win.  It's easy to pull off every move a character has in Brawl, which is why the game heavily rely's on the bassics of all fighters, knowing your opponent.

 



NFGBlinkAC said:
ctk495 said:

Iclim is right I have been playing smash for a year and I am sure that any pro will destroy me.They just have much more experience it will take me years to equal their skill.

 

Would love to play against you guys, but I don't own a Wii.  When I say "lack of skill in the game", I literally mean lack of skill since the only major skill part in the game is mind reading your opponent.  If you can read your opponent in any fighter, it can give you the advantage in a fight, but that doesn't guarantee a Win.  It's easy to pull off every move a character has in Brawl, which is why the game heavily rely's on the bassics of all fighters, knowing your opponent.

 

While anyone can use Pikachu's Quick Attack (Up-B + directions), there's very few people who can use it as effectively as Anther does. Anyone can throw Diddy's bananas but to use them like NinjaLink does takes some serious skill. I like the fact that the moves aren't hard to do but you have to use them wisely. It's also one of the reasons I prefer Tekken over Street Fighter, no damn quarter circle, hold for 2 seconds.

 



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S.T.A.G.E. said:
naznatips said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
naznatips said:

 

Good example. Boots are simple, sturdy, and for slow working men. Ballet and Tap require speed and skill.

 

 

No....thats not what I meant. Tekken requires more skill than SSMB. Thats a childs game, just like Naruto and DBZ. I like playing it at times, but it's no Tekken. To even put it in Tekkens league is an insult. DBZ and Naruto are beat 'em ups, which allow for finishers and evasions based on timed-commands (A very controlled level of gameplay). SSMB is a fun game which can have strategy, but is very simple; just keep raising your opponents hit percentage and they'll fly off in the stratusphere. Tekken has too many levels of players and isn't linear in its point. Tekken is a tournament style fighter, which the best play.....likewise for Street Fighter.

D

 

Well I've never played SSMB and I have no idea what it is or what it plays like, but SSBB is very fast and requires a lot of skill and strategy. The use of the environment and complex physics is something you don't have in technical fighters.

I'm not saying being able to mash buttons and direcitons in rapid succession in order to use your moves isn't something that requires skill. I'm saying it's a silly skill that makes the games that use it silly. A game like Smash requirse skill in timing, strategy, use of the environment, and reaction time. The ability to move your character perfectly and speedily is just as important as the attacks you use. Something not at all true of the slow-moving linear traditional fighters.

To quote myself on the previous page, I want complete control over my character. I want every button (in combination with a direction is fine) to make a specific move, and the depth to come from my adeptness at using those moves quickly and well together. I do not want my moves to be dependent on a silly set of hitting buttons rapidly that have nothing to do with the special attack I'm trying to execute.

 

 

I've been playing SSMB for years and recently Brawl; however, the key to destroying people in that game is knowing which character is stronger and where you are exactly in the level. The game is about who has more kills, which could be achieved in a second. The game requires more skill than the first SSMB, but it's not very different. The type of skill you're talking about in Brawl is much more elementary as opposed to a traditional fighter. Take Soul Calibur for instance, say your opponent wants to knock you out of the ring, you can strafe horizontally to evade a verticle attack with a weapon (has to be split second thinking), leaving them open for your blow. In this instance if they used a horizontal In brawl if you were on a ledge, either you have a much higher chance of being hit whether or not you have skill. If they have a special, get the hell out of their way. It's a very simple concept.

The next thing about Brawl and Tekken or Soul Calibur are separated like this.

Concepts of SSMB: Block, primary attack (A button), One button beat 'em up combo (A button), throw things at people, dodge, Special (B button) and throws. Theres isn't much to work with there. The skill in the game basically comes from timing as you said. You're basically given all the tools in one button, it's just about how you use it that is key.

Tekken: Square and Triangle control the right and left arms, while the X and circle button control the lower limbs alone. Theres strafing, reversals, attacks based on button combinations, string-combos (combos that actually require skill), juggles and more. Things aren't given to you in Tekken. four throws based on your skill (2 for the front of opponents body, another two for the back and players have special throws which they can hit with button combinations)  In Tekken your ability to excel is based upon how quick your reflexes are, anticipation, knowledge of combos, and most importantly there are far more moments in a Tekken tournament when people freeze up, unlike brawl. Sometimes if you aren't sure of yourself, your muscles will get tense and lock up. I've never had that happen to me in Brawl, because win or lose I was having fun in a simplistic manner.

If you want a game where you can control you characters every limb in use for fighting, you're looking at traditional fighters.

 

You missed the joke. There's no such thing as SSMB. SSBM is what it's called. Also you ignored everything about the directional differences, smash attacks, platforming, and more importantly the physics of Brawl. Regardless of what technical fighter you are talking about, there is very little use for the environment and the physics of momentum and weight. That adds an entirely different level of depth.

You don't understand that by playing it casually, but the depth in Brawl has nothing to do with the level of buttons, but the momentum, environment, and physics. It's not elementary at all. It's very complex, and requires an understanding of the game that it's not going to hand you on a silver platter like the button combo mashing technical fighters you love.

It's a very different skill-set, and it's one that you won't by default be good at just because you play Tekken well.



naznatips said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
naznatips said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
naznatips said:

 

Good example. Boots are simple, sturdy, and for slow working men. Ballet and Tap require speed and skill.

 

 

No....thats not what I meant. Tekken requires more skill than SSMB. Thats a childs game, just like Naruto and DBZ. I like playing it at times, but it's no Tekken. To even put it in Tekkens league is an insult. DBZ and Naruto are beat 'em ups, which allow for finishers and evasions based on timed-commands (A very controlled level of gameplay). SSMB is a fun game which can have strategy, but is very simple; just keep raising your opponents hit percentage and they'll fly off in the stratusphere. Tekken has too many levels of players and isn't linear in its point. Tekken is a tournament style fighter, which the best play.....likewise for Street Fighter.

D

 

Well I've never played SSMB and I have no idea what it is or what it plays like, but SSBB is very fast and requires a lot of skill and strategy. The use of the environment and complex physics is something you don't have in technical fighters.

I'm not saying being able to mash buttons and direcitons in rapid succession in order to use your moves isn't something that requires skill. I'm saying it's a silly skill that makes the games that use it silly. A game like Smash requirse skill in timing, strategy, use of the environment, and reaction time. The ability to move your character perfectly and speedily is just as important as the attacks you use. Something not at all true of the slow-moving linear traditional fighters.

To quote myself on the previous page, I want complete control over my character. I want every button (in combination with a direction is fine) to make a specific move, and the depth to come from my adeptness at using those moves quickly and well together. I do not want my moves to be dependent on a silly set of hitting buttons rapidly that have nothing to do with the special attack I'm trying to execute.

 

 

I've been playing SSMB for years and recently Brawl; however, the key to destroying people in that game is knowing which character is stronger and where you are exactly in the level. The game is about who has more kills, which could be achieved in a second. The game requires more skill than the first SSMB, but it's not very different. The type of skill you're talking about in Brawl is much more elementary as opposed to a traditional fighter. Take Soul Calibur for instance, say your opponent wants to knock you out of the ring, you can strafe horizontally to evade a verticle attack with a weapon (has to be split second thinking), leaving them open for your blow. In this instance if they used a horizontal In brawl if you were on a ledge, either you have a much higher chance of being hit whether or not you have skill. If they have a special, get the hell out of their way. It's a very simple concept.

The next thing about Brawl and Tekken or Soul Calibur are separated like this.

Concepts of SSMB: Block, primary attack (A button), One button beat 'em up combo (A button), throw things at people, dodge, Special (B button) and throws. Theres isn't much to work with there. The skill in the game basically comes from timing as you said. You're basically given all the tools in one button, it's just about how you use it that is key.

Tekken: Square and Triangle control the right and left arms, while the X and circle button control the lower limbs alone. Theres strafing, reversals, attacks based on button combinations, string-combos (combos that actually require skill), juggles and more. Things aren't given to you in Tekken. four throws based on your skill (2 for the front of opponents body, another two for the back and players have special throws which they can hit with button combinations)  In Tekken your ability to excel is based upon how quick your reflexes are, anticipation, knowledge of combos, and most importantly there are far more moments in a Tekken tournament when people freeze up, unlike brawl. Sometimes if you aren't sure of yourself, your muscles will get tense and lock up. I've never had that happen to me in Brawl, because win or lose I was having fun in a simplistic manner.

If you want a game where you can control you characters every limb in use for fighting, you're looking at traditional fighters.

 

You missed the joke. There's no such thing as SSMB. SSBM is what it's called. Also you ignored everything about the directional differences, smash attacks, platforming, and more importantly the physics of Brawl. Regardless of what technical fighter you are talking about, there is very little use for the environment and the physics of momentum and weight. That adds an entirely different level of depth.

You don't understand that by playing it casually, but the depth in Brawl has nothing to do with the level of buttons, but the momentum, environment, and physics. It's not elementary at all. It's very complex, and requires an understanding of the game that it's not going to hand you on a silver platter like the button combo mashing technical fighters you love.

It's a very different skill-set, and it's one that you won't by default be good at just because you play Tekken well.

 

 

Button mashing is for amateurs. Skillful players know their buttons in games like Tekken. A player who is good in Tekken can destroy a player in SSBB (Sorry for the typo). They are used to more complex and complicated strings and combos with variations and buttons; not to mention, they on top of that they have to have their wits about where they are. Playing SSBB takes the weight off. You are obviously talking about Melee which was on the Gamecube. That was one of the most underrated SSB games, but competitive players usually play that one. I'm sure its not much different than Brawl with a Cube controller.



No, you're simply wrong. A good player in Tekken can't hop into SSBB and beat an SSBB tourney player, and vice versa is true as well. It's a different skillset. All you understand is what you are seeing on the surface.

And weight is far more important in SSBB than it was in SSBM... you have no idea what you are talking about. You should stop.



@ naznatips and S.T.A.G.E.

You guys are both right, but if a professional Tekken went against a Pro in SSB, they wouldn't get beaten down as bad as you think. There is more skill involved in Tekken than in SSB just because of the options you have for attacking are far greater in Tekken than in SSB

If you made a flow chart of all the available attacks in every situation in both games, Tekken characters have a HUGE amount of options to choose from compared to SSB. For example, my main in Tekken, Hwoarang, has a huge flow chart since his attacks can differ from 4 different stances, that leads to at least 4 different options of next attack to choose from, which then leads to another set of options.



TruckOSaurus said:
NFGBlinkAC said:
ctk495 said:

Iclim is right I have been playing smash for a year and I am sure that any pro will destroy me.They just have much more experience it will take me years to equal their skill.

 

Would love to play against you guys, but I don't own a Wii.  When I say "lack of skill in the game", I literally mean lack of skill since the only major skill part in the game is mind reading your opponent.  If you can read your opponent in any fighter, it can give you the advantage in a fight, but that doesn't guarantee a Win.  It's easy to pull off every move a character has in Brawl, which is why the game heavily rely's on the bassics of all fighters, knowing your opponent.

 

While anyone can use Pikachu's Quick Attack (Up-B + directions), there's very few people who can use it as effectively as Anther does. Anyone can throw Diddy's bananas but to use them like NinjaLink does takes some serious skill. I like the fact that the moves aren't hard to do but you have to use them wisely. It's also one of the reasons I prefer Tekken over Street Fighter, no damn quarter circle, hold for 2 seconds.

 

I know, thats why the game heavily rely's on reading your opponent.  If you randomly pull off a move, and read your opponent wrong, your screwed lol