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Forums - Gaming Discussion - My XBox 360 vs PS3 comparison (mostly technical)

libellule on 20 September 2007

sincerely, this "developper" is nothing than a fanboy.
it is obvious he is pushing the Xbox360 and not the PS3.
so obvious.

I'm not even saying the Xbox360 is not superior.
Note this !
I'm saying that this "developper" is BS. He has basically no argues.



Time to Work !

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MikeB on 20 September 2007

@ sieanr

Personally, I think part of his disdain for MS is because DOS "killed" the Amiga, in his mind.


Nah DOS didn't kill the Amiga. Of course greatly preferring preemptive multitasking 32-bit GUI-based multimedia OSes in the 80s, I wasn't much a fan of MSDOS, although I did tinker with it and MacOS for a while under emulation. Using MacOS software on the Amiga was much cooler though, as the Amiga could emulate MacOS software through a software emulator faster than an equavalently specced genuine Mac could, all this while still alllowing for true multitasking (at the time MacOS couldn't do this).

If you want some real fun, look up one of his older posts where he declares the Cell to be the pinnicle of thousands of years of human acheivement


The fact is that a lot of R&D went into designing and developing the Cell processor, thousands of manyears work, A LOT more than is the case with regard to the Xenon processor.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

MikeB on 20 September 2007

@ libellule

sincerely, this "developper" is nothing than a fanboy.
it is obvious he is pushing the Xbox360 and not the PS3.
so obvious.

I'm not even saying the Xbox360 is not superior.
Note this !
I'm saying that this "developper" is BS. He has basically no argues.


I wonder what he developes? XNA minigames?

There are a lot of different perspectives, some comments are politically and commercially motivated. Another perspective:

(September 16, 2007) Developer: Xbox 360 games keeping up with PS3, but not for long

"GAMER.BLORGE.com has learned exclusively what some of the key points of the Xbox vs PS3 war are, and it's not all about the Halo."

"Where the real problem stem is in the two system's processors. While Xbox games can be tweaked to move up to the PS3, the reverse is not always the case. Due to the PS3's advanced processor, games developed for the Sony backed platform sometimes can't be downgraded to the the 360's chip.

With the 360 being in the range of 2 years old now, it is said they have used about 90% of the systems resources, which allows for some PS3 games to be ported over, but it will become rarer as time goes on. As they push the PS3's performance, they will finally surpass the abilities of the 360 completely.

So where are you left in the console war? Why are developers still coming out with so few PS3 games? It's really just that much easier to work with the 360.

In the end though, who does our undisclosed developer think will win? While they gave no time frame for the inevitable victory, they were very clear that they thought the long haul champion would be the PS3 for this round of the overall war."

IMO we can make up our own minds by looking at the hardware specs, anything software related be that game engines or developer tools will be enhanced in due time.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

MikeB on 20 September 2007

@ sieanr

MikeB brings up the Amiga whenever he finds an excuse - no matter how irrelavent.


You attacked me before within the Lair thread for bringing up Turrican 1 & 2 with regard to Factor 5. I liked Turrican a lot and Factor 5 is planning a PSN version for the PS3. People often talk about things using their own experiences as examples. Please cut out the cheapshots.

See, an IBM article compared the Cell to the Amiga. That, in and of itself, is enough to prove the PS3s superiority over all other computers.


No, just reread the whole thread and put the PS3 and XBox 360 hardware specs and advantages side by side. Then I think you don't really need PR spokesman to tell you which design is (far) more powerful for the long run.

IMO, a lot of misinformation has been addressed within this thread and some things have been clarified, for example with regard to threading. I hope this will result into fewer attacks against the PS3 and more constraint from XBox 360 fans. More hardware pushing games and price drops will come in due time!



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

wandie2007 on 20 September 2007

Mmmmm I think xbox360 is a tad better. I must agree PS3 has power in some areas. But when you get a system which is relatively running at the same rate. And the games are offered on both systems. Which console would you buy. Clearly the cheaper one. Its like ATI vs Geforce. You can get the same performance but one is cheaper. I would get both if I had the cash. But this is business in my view. "Somone said well if you can connect 3 playstation 3 console, you make a super computer" That was one of the dumbness thing i have ever heard in a while.Who cares I just wanna play games. I hope I am not off topic.

It all a matter of taste.



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MikeB on 20 September 2007

@ wandie2007

I must agree PS3 has power in some areas. But when you get a system which is relatively running at the same rate.


I guess you haven't read the thread. Both CPUs run at 3.2 GHz per core/processor, but the PS3 has 8 processors and the XBox 360 3 cores on the CPU. The other major difference in terms of performance is that the bandwidth to the main memory on the Xbox 360 is shared between the CPU and GPU, which is certainly a distadvantage. Overall there really is a major hardware performance and potentials advantage for the PS3 (even more so in combination with default harddrive and Blu-Ray disc).

Of course the difference manifests itself when developers tap into the power of the PS3's additional cores and go beyond the XBox 360's bandwidth limitations.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

Saiyar on 20 September 2007
selnor said:
A games developer started this thread on another site. (Not sure if I can mention site. If I'm aloud tell me.)

What follows is a copy and paste of his first post.


360 or PS3: A Game Developer's Perspective

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4) DVD vs Bluray: Many fanboys make a big deal about Bluray, and how it is needed for games. Honestly, it is nice. It is one area that developers can not worry about, and as a result you'll see a PS3 exclusive talking about how big each level takes (2Gb, so on). That is because, basically, they can be lazy with Bluray. They can duplicate data, a lot, to help their load times. They can include multiple languages. But, end of day, I don't believe consumers will see a difference or care about these. So Bluray allows a developer to be a bit more lazy with their disc layout and usage. This isn't true for 360. Developers need to care more about it. It is an issue. But - it isn't a deal breaker. Most developer would honestly tell you, 9GB of game data is a hell of a lot once things are compressed and 360 can compress stuff really well on disc. Load times are slower on blueray, it's a fact. But the PS3 can cache on their hard disk, so that helps. Overall, I would give this a tie... or perhaps slight edge to PS3 only because it means you have an HD video format built into the system.

 
 

How are we meant to take your Game Developer friend seriously when he doesn't even know how much game data you can have on a 360 DVD9?

Mike B and Seianr actually sound like they know what they are talking about. You just come across as a fanboy.



Darc Requiem on 20 September 2007

The 360 CPU has 3 cores, the Cell has 1 core and 7 SPUs.



Final-Fan on 20 September 2007
sieanr said:
Final-Fan said:
sieanr said:
Final-Fan said:
Darc Requiem said:
It isn't speculation. The PS3 was originally going be powered by multiple Cells. Sony did go to Nvidia in the middle of the PS3's development for GPU. That's common knowledge.


The video card thing I don't doubt is at least somewhat true, but as for the "original" Cell design, I really, really think that what you refer to is an extremely early idea -- probably one of many -- that was discarded for obvious (cost) reasons very early in the design process.

Prove me wrong.


The deal with nvidia happened in December of 2004, and months later the "final" PS3 specs hit at E3. Keep in mind that this deal happened when Sony was heavily hinting at a late '05 launch.

Given that the Cell began development in 2001, hand in hand with the PS3, I'd say the deal was quite late.


I already said that I was inclined to believe you on the thing you provided evidence for, and I said I disbelieved the thing you declined to provide evidence for.

(March 2001, five and a half years before PS3 launch, =/= rushed design. Especially when the 360's Xenon processor wasn't under development until at least 2002 -- giving it two years or 40% less time from conception to market than the Cell had. If you base this supposed lack of development, as your post implies, on the fact that other aspects of the PS3 were also under development then, that only proves that Sony was MORE forward-thinking, not less.)

Will you concede that the Cell design was not rushed?


Learn to read

I never said the Cell was a rushed design, just that the entire PS3 design was changed relativly late in the design phase. This is based off the fact that the Nvidia deal for the GPU didn't happen until the PS3 had already had years of design under its belt.

Changing the design around completly and adding a traditionaly GPU to the mix a year before your targeted window is the very definition of "rush job"

MS caught Sony with their pants down, launching long before they expected. Sony had to come up with something, especially when they realised that the Cell wouldn't perform well as a faux GPU. Then they ran into other issues, possibly related to the RSX being shoehorned in.

Having a console in development for 5 1/2 years before launch, yet failing to have mature dev kits available speaks volumes about the state of the PS3 at launch. You'd think that if they had things finalized long before then that that sort of thing wouldn't be a problem.

Did you get all of that; or was it too hard to comprehend?

http://www.dmwmedia.com/news/2004/12/07/sony-nvidia-partner-on-playstation-3-graphics-chip - maybe your inclinded to believe this instead of spending five seconds to find hundreds of google hits for stories identicle to this. Whoops!



"Learn to read"? How about: you learn to write.

I thought that when you wrote

Given that the Cell began development in 2001, hand in hand with the PS3, I'd say the deal was quite late.

you meant that the Cell "deal" between Sony, IBM and Toshiba in 2001 was quite late. Keep in mind that the above quote is an ENTIRE PARAGRAPH. Perhaps I should have realized that you meant the "deal" in late 2004 for the graphics card, but this was an honest mistake.

Moving on: In your earlier post, which was a response to back-and-forth about whether PS3 design was "rushed", you mentioned that "The PS3 was originally going to be powered by multiple Cells." I decided to say that I doubt very much that that design was ever seriously considered beyond early concepts; I also spent one sentence saying that the GPU decision was at least somewhat rushed.

In my second post to you, I spend one sentence, again, saying that I am not arguing that the PS3's GPU was not rushed, and spent the rest of my ENTIRE POST explaining why the Cell was not rushed.

Where are you getting the idea that I ever, EVER argued that the PS3's GPU was not "rushed" into the PS3's design? I defy you to show where I have said such a thing. You are attacking me for disagreeing with something I didn't disagree with. Admittedly, I had a similar misconception about you, but I had a much better reason for my misunderstanding, and was never insulting or condescending -- until now.

"Learn to read", indeed.

P.S. Oh, and may I presume that you agree to the question I posed at the end of my previous post? (Assuming you comprehend the question I am asking here, of course.)

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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Final-Fan on 20 September 2007
sieanr said:
Tell me something the developer really said not covered by my above interpretation AND that isn't sheer opinion.


PS3 cant do AI as well as the 360, due to the Cell

Oh shi-


Except he DIDN'T SAY THAT. Anything else? or was that all you had?

Not to mention MS killed the Amiga - which proves that MS cant make a product superior to anything.

What does market superiority prove about product superiority? Oh, right, nothing.

[edit: just to clear up any possible misconceptions, I am not defending MikeB's constant use of Amiga analogies -- I take no position on it. But your statement sarcastic irony that I quoted proves nothing at all.]



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom!