By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - My XBox 360 vs PS3 comparison (mostly technical)

MikeB wrote:

At some point I upgraded a lowend 14 Mhz 2MB chipram (shared graphics/sound/CPU memory) Amiga with a 50 Mhz CPU upgrade board together with 4 MB 60 ns (best available at the time) 32-bit fastram, resulting in huge performance gains. But a year later I upgraded to a new 25 Mhz Amiga, so a lower clocked yet higher perfomance CPU.

The first step most tech noobs would understand, but with the latter upgrade many would be scratching their head.


To clarify for some the 68040 CPU delivered over double the per-clock performance as compared to the 68030 CPU.

Sadly I think the fact that many consumers look primarily at clock frequencies while deciding which CPU is faster, this has hurt 68k, PowerPC CPU and other CPU designs in the past when compared to more inefficient x86 alternatives. I think this also resulted in some poor performing yet highly clocked CPUs being released in the past.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

Around the Network

It isn't speculation. The PS3 was originally going be powered by multiple Cells. Sony did go to Nvidia in the middle of the PS3's development for GPU. That's common knowledge.



Darc Requiem said:
It isn't speculation. The PS3 was originally going be powered by multiple Cells. Sony did go to Nvidia in the middle of the PS3's development for GPU. That's common knowledge.


The video card thing I don't doubt is at least somewhat true, but as for the "original" Cell design, I really, really think that what you refer to is an extremely early idea -- probably one of many -- that was discarded for obvious (cost) reasons very early in the design process. 

Prove me wrong. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Do you?

BTW I never look solely at clock frequencies like many/most PC consumers, but rather look all the aspects of a chip or better yet device design.


This was targeted at your comparison of 700mhz GDDR3 being significantly slower than 3.2ghz XDR. Seriously, look up the effective clock of GDDR3 and it becomes obvious as to how overlook certain numbers to try and make your argument stronger.

I find your speculation hard to swallow for a graphics chip that was codenamed Radeon R500 (aka Xenos). Both chips have a PC heritage, for a console GPU to have similarities or a common heritage with high performance gaming/multimedia PC GPUs I wouldn't call a disadvantage per se.


Xenos has plenty of custom features designed to be used solely for the console - features that cant be found anywhere else. RSX has none.

The 7800 was hardly a "high performance gaming/multimedia PC GPU" when the PS3 was released.

The fact that the RSX is nothing more than a somewhat crippled PC GPU is a problem. http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=29579&page=1


DDR3 68ns
XDR 52.5ns read
42.5ns to write


Whats the clocks on those associated latencies?

As a non-tech noob, I'm sure that your aware about how a higher clock increase latency.

At some point I upgraded a lowend 14 Mhz 2MB chipram (shared graphics/sound/CPU memory) Amiga with a 50 Mhz CPU upgrade board together with 4 MB 60 ns (best available at the time) 32-bit fastram, resulting in huge performance gains. But a year later I upgraded to a new 25 Mhz Amiga, so a lower clocked yet higher perfomance CPU.

The first step most tech noobs would understand, but with the latter upgrade many would be scratching their head.


To clarify for some the 68040 CPU delivered over double the per-clock performance as compared to the 68030 CPU.

Sadly I think the fact that many consumers look primarily at clock frequencies while deciding which CPU is faster, this has hurt 68k, PowerPC CPU and other CPU designs in the past when compared to more inefficient x86 alternatives. I think this also resulted in some poor performing yet highly clocked CPUs being released in the past.


Go post this on an Amiga forum - maybe someone there will give a shit.



Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

ssj12 said: Player specific decoders are nothing more than specialized GPUs. Gran Turismo is the trust driving simulator of them all. 

"Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away" 

Final-Fan said:
Darc Requiem said:
It isn't speculation. The PS3 was originally going be powered by multiple Cells. Sony did go to Nvidia in the middle of the PS3's development for GPU. That's common knowledge.


The video card thing I don't doubt is at least somewhat true, but as for the "original" Cell design, I really, really think that what you refer to is an extremely early idea -- probably one of many -- that was discarded for obvious (cost) reasons very early in the design process. 

Prove me wrong. 


The deal with nvidia happened in December of 2004, and months later the "final" PS3 specs hit at E3. Keep in mind that this deal happened when Sony was heavily hinting at a late '05 launch.

Given that the Cell began development in 2001, hand in hand with the PS3, I'd say the deal was quite late.



Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

ssj12 said: Player specific decoders are nothing more than specialized GPUs. Gran Turismo is the trust driving simulator of them all. 

"Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away" 

Around the Network

@ sieanr

Sorry, here some figures.

Latency comparison

1.25 (PS3)/2.0/2.5/3.33 ns for XDR
± 10 ns DDR3

This time I ask you to show exactly why XDR should not be significantly faster than GDDR3. GDDR3 is good for graphic cards, but you tell me why PCs don't have unified memory is if it's so well suited for CPUs?



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

Anyhow, this article was mainly intended to debunk some rumours spread by XBox 360 fans. Hopefully it was effective, I got fed up wrong articles claiming things like 16 MB/s speeds for the XBox 360 drive (which is even above the Max speed of a single layer XBox DVD), unified memory being so much of an advantage (while the bandwidth is practically cut in half), PS3 being rushed and the XBox 360 is not (the failure rates and other problems suggest otherwise), etc.

CU Tomorrow.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

Hmm...I'm not sure I would say from a complete planning point of view that the 360 was rushed while the PS3 was not. If anything, the PS3 sounds like things happened in its development that were a bit more unplanned than the 360. From what I know about the development of both systems, I know that both systems were in development about the same amount of time. However, the PS3's design was changed somewhat at the last minute with the addition of a GPU (originally, as was pointed out, the cell was going to be used for this purpose). In addition the Blu-Ray spec wasn't finalized for quite some time (causing the system to be delayed as a result).

On the other hand, the 360 was planned pretty much from the beginning to have everything that's in it now. I will concede that the 360 has an exorbitantly high failure rate (after all, it's pretty obvious), but this has nothing to do with the spec design; this was a mistake in the physical case design and their failure to put a better heat sink above the GPU (which thankfully has been addressed, and it seems the problem has been taken care of for now (new consoles have a much better heat sink in them)). I wouldn't call the system rushed per se because everything was planned from the get go; it's just they underestimated the heat generation and they skimped in these cooling categories (read: they were cheap here); and as a result are paying for these mistakes now. However, nothing about the design was changed at the last minute like the PS3, and this why this point about the PS3 being "rushed" comes up (although I would say "rushed" isn't the best word for it...because they were planning on making the system all along...it's just they changed its design somewhat last minute (i.e. late '04 when the system was planned to be launched late '05)).

It should also be pointed out that the PS3 should have launched in late 2005 when the 360 launched (go back and watch the E3 2005 pres-conference and you'll see this). Therefore their specs were essentially locked at the same time the 360's specs were locked. The only reason the system was delayed was because of Blu-Ray's specs not being finalized. I won't comment on whether this was a mistake or not, because it's far too early in the generation to make such claims, but often people forget that the PS3 was delayed and should have launched in 2005 at the same time as the 360. This is a somewhat important point because it shows that the technology of the actual innards of both consoles date to about the same time, and therefore nothing about the PS3's design is superior to the 360's because of the PS3 being designed later (that is, the argument that the PS3 is more powerful because it came out later really is not a good argument for this reason). This isn't to say the PS3 isn't more powerful because I think it's pretty obvious it is; but it's not more powerful becasue it had more time in development and came out later.

Additionally, you might wonder why I keep harping on about "the PS3 should have been launched in '05"? Really it's because it shows that the first generation games for the PS3 had a lot more time in development than most people realize. Because the system was planned to be released in '05, some developers were developing games at the same time 1st generation 360 games were being developed. And so, even with that much time, some games still did not really impress upon release (although I gotta say Resistance rocked; almost as much as Halo CE did when the XBOX came out). This really speaks to the fact that the PS3 is difficult to develop for, and although the 360 is easier to develop for (and probably will be maxed out first) it's still an important point because it'll take more time and money to max out the PS3 (which is good and bad...good in that there will be awesome games maxing out the system in the future from wealthy publishers/developers (such as KZ2, which has a gigantic budget), and bad in that there won't be a lot of these games because there won't be that many studios willing to put forth that kind of budget and time).

In the end, I don't think anybody doubts that the PS3 is the more powerful console overall (it was after all 600 dollars at launch compared to 400 for 360 and 250 for Wii, so I would realllly hope it's more powerful if you're paying that much for it). I think the major debate here is that the consoles are more even than most people think or want to believe. There are differences yes, but I wonder if we'll ever truly see those differences amount to gigantic leaps. In other words, I'm not ready to say these differences in design will lead to gigantic and very pronounced differences in game quality. Yes, the PS3 has some amazing looking games coming along; but so does the 360. Because the system is more difficult and more expensive to develop for, this could prove to be a very important factor. I don't doubt that we'll see the PS3 maxed out eventually; but will people still care enough about the system when this finally happens? I really don't know, and I'm not going to make some sweeping prediction. But I do know that it's a possibility and it's something that developers certainly are looking at; and it's also probably a major contributing factor to loss of some major PlayStation exclusives to the 360.

I really want to see the PS3 at its full throttle because I love video games, but I wonder when it'll happen, if people will still care, and if it the leap between the systems power will be as big as some people are expecting it to be (because no matter what any wanna-be know-it-all on here thinks, no one really knows the true differences in real world performance between the two systems). I do know people were claiming the PS2 and XBOX were being maxed out early in their life cycles, but one only has to look at games like GOW1 and 2 and Chronicles of Riddick to see that this certainly was not the case. I also remember this happening with the Dreamcast, PS1 and Saturn before. I think often when developers make a game that is a giant leap they want to feel like they used everything in the system that could possibly be used; but common sense will tell you that the longer you have to work with something, the more time you have to perfect the algorithm, make better compression tech, and overall just make a better product that runs smoother and pushes the system further. For this reason, I truly doubt we have seen all the 360 has to offer yet (this is kinda in response to people quoting the Epic guys "we're using 95% of the 360's power"), and I know we definitely haven't seen all the PS3 has to offer.

Making things even more complicated is that because these two system designs are so radically different, it is extremely difficult to come up with adequate and fair (key word here) comparisons between of two systems. It is really an "apples to oranges" situation. I think one only has to look at the mixed opinions developers have about their preferences between the 360 and the PS3 to see that even they're not sure which is better (some like 360 better, some like PS3 better). If the developers can't all decide in a uniform way, how can we on this forum truly make fair conclusions? Put simply, we really can't...and the best part about these arguments here isn't that people come here wanting to learn which is better; rather most people come here with their minds made up on which is superior and are willing to argue this no matter how many fallacies and irregularities exist in their logic (that is, they only see the positives and refuse to or can't see the negatives in their arguments). I guess this is just how the internet is with any topic though.

In the end, however, it all comes down to games (that is what we love about video games...right??). And if this generation is proving anything, it's that the competition from all three companies is at an all-time high. It's great to see such fierce competition from all sides, and I know because of this it's a great time to be a gamer. The immense quantity of quality games coming out from now until March 08 is astonishing; and it's all because we have two very powerful consoles that are both dueling it out to get the top spot in the HD-gaming market (we all know Wii has the actual next-gen 1st place locked up). I don't own a PS3 yet, but I certainly plan on getting one. Anyone who calls themselves a "gamer" and has the capability of affording a PS3 would be silly to deny themselves of getting one eventually because the system will get some great games in the future (whether it has great games now is somewhat of a subjective debate on how you define "great"...I would put the games that recently came out on the border of "good/great" but not in the "great" category simply because I doubt those games will move a large amount of systems...games like MGS4 and FF13 would of course fall into the "great" category (assuming they live up to their expectations, which they should)).

And so, with all that said, I think we all need to calm down a bit on how much these systems are different from each other, and which one is more "powerful". If the games are awesome, who really cares? I know I don't...I'm looking forward to the next few years of gaming because it's going be to great. Thanks for reading.



sieanr said:
Final-Fan said:
Darc Requiem said:
It isn't speculation. The PS3 was originally going be powered by multiple Cells. Sony did go to Nvidia in the middle of the PS3's development for GPU. That's common knowledge.


The video card thing I don't doubt is at least somewhat true, but as for the "original" Cell design, I really, really think that what you refer to is an extremely early idea -- probably one of many -- that was discarded for obvious (cost) reasons very early in the design process.

Prove me wrong.


The deal with nvidia happened in December of 2004, and months later the "final" PS3 specs hit at E3. Keep in mind that this deal happened when Sony was heavily hinting at a late '05 launch.

Given that the Cell began development in 2001, hand in hand with the PS3, I'd say the deal was quite late.


I already said that I was inclined to believe you on the thing you provided evidence for, and I said I disbelieved the thing you declined to provide evidence for.

(March 2001, five and a half years before PS3 launch, =/= rushed design. Especially when the 360's Xenon processor wasn't under development until at least 2002 -- giving it two years or 40% less time from conception to market than the Cell had. If you base this supposed lack of development, as your post implies, on the fact that other aspects of the PS3 were also under development then, that only proves that Sony was MORE forward-thinking, not less.)

Will you concede that the Cell design was not rushed?



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

whoops!



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom!