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Forums - General Discussion - Healthcare isn't a business, it's peoples lives

tombi123 on 21 April 2009
Viper1 said:
tombi123 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
wfz said:
How is each dollar a segment of your life? You can survive just fine without money, people did it for thousands of years.

 

If I make 6 dollars an hour, a dollar represents 10 minutes, as that’s how much time it took me to earn a dollar.

If you take $600 from me, you have in effect taken 100 hours of my time away from me. I could have just done something else with those 100 hours. Something more self fulfilling then working for 6 bucks an hour.

If you make 6 dollars an hour, a socialized healthcare system would extend your life by more than 100 hours compared to a private healthcare system.

 

How?  The healthcare would be the same.  Either the money gets taken from your check to pay for the socialized healthcare or you pay for it via insurance.

 

 

 Is health insurance optional or mandatory in the USA?



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wfz on 21 April 2009
TheRealMafoo said:
wfz said:
How is each dollar a segment of your life? You can survive just fine without money, people did it for thousands of years.

 

If I make 6 dollars an hour, a dollar represents 10 minutes, as that’s how much time it took me to earn a dollar.

If you take $600 from me, you have in effect taken 100 hours of my time away from me. I could have just done something else with those 100 hours. Something more self fulfilling then working for 6 bucks an hour.

 

I wasn't thinking of it that way, but it makes sense. I see what you're saying.

 

You mean that the money represents the time, work, and effort you've spent in your life, right? I didn't take your meaning deep enough, it seems.

 

I thought you meant that the money was your life in the way that you're life depends on the money, and you'd somehow die without it. :P



TheRealMafoo on 21 April 2009
tombi123 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
wfz said:
How is each dollar a segment of your life? You can survive just fine without money, people did it for thousands of years.

 

If I make 6 dollars an hour, a dollar represents 10 minutes, as that’s how much time it took me to earn a dollar.

If you take $600 from me, you have in effect taken 100 hours of my time away from me. I could have just done something else with those 100 hours. Something more self fulfilling then working for 6 bucks an hour.

If you make 6 dollars an hour, a socialized healthcare system would extend your life by more than 100 hours compared to a private healthcare system.

 

 

If Americans lived in a world where 6 bucks an hour was something they were forced to make (meaning they could never make more money, like a class system if you will), then I would agree with you.

If I lived in a country where one was limited to how much money they could make, then I would be for forcing the upper class to pay for the lower class. It would be there duty. I live in a country where anyone can become anything, as long as they work hard for it.

With that system, it puts the responsibility on the individual (where it belongs) to make sure they live a long, and happy, life.
 
You want more out of life? Work for it. Don’t make someone else work for it.



Kasz216 on 21 April 2009

Why isn't food socialized then?

Food is much more important then healthcare for living.

 



Esmoreit on 21 April 2009
TheRealMafoo said:
Esmoreit said:
TheRealMafoo said:
highwaystar101 said:

*First off I am not a socialist.* - Just want to make that clear

 

But I do support socialist healthcare regardless of taxes or cost. I think there are more important things in life than money and health is one of them.

 

I don’t have an endless supply of money. Every dollar I have, I have to earn. Every dollar represents a segment of my life. When you collect those dollars to heal someone else, you are trading my life for their health.

Why is their health worth more to you then my life?

First of all, this analogy is simply out of whack. Your taxesy could just as well be spent on education, or the military. Secondly, we all fall ill. We will, at some point need the services of the hospital. If you can think of more then 5 people close to you who have not been in a hospital your clearly a rarity. And you will then be glad that those hospitals are there. It's also simply the humane thing to do. My grandmother would have never been able to pay for a new hip in the American health system. And I wish her, and any other person the best of care in the world. And I'll gladly pay for that.

I also don't see why you would have to spend so much money on health care. I pay maybe 50 euro a month for healthinsurance, 25 euro I get back every time I don't use the hospital.

 

You didn't answer the question.

Why is it ok for my government to take my life, to provide for someone else’s health?

They don't take your life first of all. You pay them taxes which include health care. Secondly, they pay it for you aswell. You are not in the hospital now but you might be within an hour, a day, a year. And by then it is pretty sweet that you can afford being there.

 



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TheRealMafoo on 21 April 2009

By the way, I think the US Health System is messed up something crazy. it needs reform.

But reform that sacrifices one group of people for another, is not change I can believe in. It is possible to fix the problem without stepping on peoples rights.



TheRealMafoo on 21 April 2009
Esmoreit said:
TheRealMafoo said:

You didn't answer the question.

Why is it ok for my government to take my life, to provide for someone else’s health?

They don't take your life first of all.

 

donathos said it best. Read his post, and you will see why we disagree on this.



tombi123 on 21 April 2009
TheRealMafoo said:
tombi123 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
wfz said:
How is each dollar a segment of your life? You can survive just fine without money, people did it for thousands of years.

 

If I make 6 dollars an hour, a dollar represents 10 minutes, as that’s how much time it took me to earn a dollar.

If you take $600 from me, you have in effect taken 100 hours of my time away from me. I could have just done something else with those 100 hours. Something more self fulfilling then working for 6 bucks an hour.

If you make 6 dollars an hour, a socialized healthcare system would extend your life by more than 100 hours compared to a private healthcare system.

 

 

If Americans lived in a world where 6 bucks an hour was something they were forced to make (meaning they could never make more money, like a class system if you will), then I would agree with you.

If I lived in a country where one was limited to how much money they could make, then I would be for forcing the upper class to pay for the lower class. It would be there duty. I live in a country where anyone can become anything, as long as they work hard for it.

With that system, it puts the responsibility on the individual (where it belongs) to make sure they live a long, and happy, life.
 
You want more out of life? Work for it. Don’t make someone else work for it.

 

 Why is your taxes going towards paying for socialized healthcare system violating your rights any more than your taxes going towards paying for socialized education? Or do you only have private schools in the USA?



Words Of Wisdom on 21 April 2009
tombi123 said:

Or do you only have private schools in the USA?

Sadly, many areas of the US are heading in this direction.  Many parents simply do not feel than their children will receive the same quality education in a public school as a private one.  Even worse, in some cases, they're right.

 



tombi123 on 21 April 2009
Words Of Wisdom said:
tombi123 said:

Or do you only have private schools in the USA?

Sadly, many areas of the US are heading in this direction.  Many parents simply do not feel than their children will receive the same quality education in a public school as a private one.  Even worse, in some cases, they're right.

 

 

 Public = state/comprehensive?

I ask because in the UK Public is the same as private.

In the UK, going to a private school certainly gives you a better chance of getting into Cambridge or Oxford