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Forums - General Discussion - Healthcare isn't a business, it's peoples lives

TheRealMafoo said:
highwaystar101 said:

*First off I am not a socialist.* - Just want to make that clear

 

But I do support socialist healthcare regardless of taxes or cost. I think there are more important things in life than money and health is one of them.

 

I don’t have an endless supply of money. Every dollar I have, I have to earn. Every dollar represents a segment of my life. When you collect those dollars to heal someone else, you are trading my life for their health.

Why is their health worth more to you then my life?

wow...

 Edit: @highwaystar

do you have a link?



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TheRealMafoo said:
highwaystar101 said:

*First off I am not a socialist.* - Just want to make that clear

 

But I do support socialist healthcare regardless of taxes or cost. I think there are more important things in life than money and health is one of them.

 

I don’t have an endless supply of money. Every dollar I have, I have to earn. Every dollar represents a segment of my life. When you collect those dollars to heal someone else, you are trading my life for their health.

Why is their health worth more to you then my life?

First of all, this analogy is simply out of whack. Your taxesy could just as well be spent on education, or the military. Secondly, we all fall ill. We will, at some point need the services of the hospital. If you can think of more then 5 people close to you who have not been in a hospital your clearly a rarity. And you will then be glad that those hospitals are there. It's also simply the humane thing to do. My grandmother would have never been able to pay for a new hip in the American health system. And I wish her, and any other person the best of care in the world. And I'll gladly pay for that.

I also don't see why you would have to spend so much money on health care. I pay maybe 50 euro a month for healthinsurance, 25 euro I get back every time I don't use the hospital.

By the way... I am a consultant in health care. Or at least, becoming one after two projects related to health care and writing my thesis on DRG's and treating health care like a business is the best way to reform them ;).

 



The Doctor will see you now  Promoting Lesbianism -->

                              

Esmoreit said:
TheRealMafoo said:
highwaystar101 said:

*First off I am not a socialist.* - Just want to make that clear

 

But I do support socialist healthcare regardless of taxes or cost. I think there are more important things in life than money and health is one of them.

 

I don’t have an endless supply of money. Every dollar I have, I have to earn. Every dollar represents a segment of my life. When you collect those dollars to heal someone else, you are trading my life for their health.

Why is their health worth more to you then my life?

First of all, this analogy is simply out of whack. Your taxesy could just as well be spent on education, or the military. Secondly, we all fall ill. We will, at some point need the services of the hospital. If you can think of more then 5 people close to you who have not been in a hospital your clearly a rarity. And you will then be glad that those hospitals are there. It's also simply the humane thing to do. My grandmother would have never been able to pay for a new hip in the American health system. And I wish her, and any other person the best of care in the world. And I'll gladly pay for that.

I also don't see why you would have to spend so much money on health care. I pay maybe 50 euro a month for healthinsurance, 25 euro I get back every time I don't use the hospital.

By the way... I am a consultant in health care. Or at least, becoming one after two projects related to health care and writing my thesis on DRG's and treating health care like a business is the best way to reform them ;).

 

Do you believe your grandmother's health insurance would not cover a hip replacement in America?  People in America also get hip replacements, you know and we don't all pay out of pocket.

 



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Esmoreit said:
TheRealMafoo said:
highwaystar101 said:

*First off I am not a socialist.* - Just want to make that clear

 

But I do support socialist healthcare regardless of taxes or cost. I think there are more important things in life than money and health is one of them.

 

I don’t have an endless supply of money. Every dollar I have, I have to earn. Every dollar represents a segment of my life. When you collect those dollars to heal someone else, you are trading my life for their health.

Why is their health worth more to you then my life?

First of all, this analogy is simply out of whack. Your taxesy could just as well be spent on education, or the military. Secondly, we all fall ill. We will, at some point need the services of the hospital. If you can think of more then 5 people close to you who have not been in a hospital your clearly a rarity. And you will then be glad that those hospitals are there. It's also simply the humane thing to do. My grandmother would have never been able to pay for a new hip in the American health system. And I wish her, and any other person the best of care in the world. And I'll gladly pay for that.

I also don't see why you would have to spend so much money on health care. I pay maybe 50 euro a month for healthinsurance, 25 euro I get back every time I don't use the hospital.

By the way... I am a consultant in health care. Or at least, becoming one after two projects related to health care and writing my thesis on DRG's and treating health care like a business is the best way to reform them ;).

 

You didn't answer the question.

Why is it ok for my government to take my life, to provide for someone else’s health?



How is each dollar a segment of your life? You can survive just fine without money, people did it for thousands of years.



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wfz said:
How is each dollar a segment of your life? You can survive just fine without money, people did it for thousands of years.

 

If I make 6 dollars an hour, a dollar represents 10 minutes, as that’s how much time it took me to earn a dollar.

If you take $600 from me, you have in effect taken 100 hours of my time away from me. I could have just done something else with those 100 hours. Something more self fulfilling then working for 6 bucks an hour.



wfz said:
How is each dollar a segment of your life? You can survive just fine without money, people did it for thousands of years.

People also survived for thousands of years without our modern concept of Healthcare ...

 

 



wfz said:
How is each dollar a segment of your life? You can survive just fine without money, people did it for thousands of years.

 

Well, you're right--that's a good way to look at it.

For thousands of years, people put their "life" (time/energy/etc.) into doing things like growing food for their families to eat.  At the end of the day, they had converted their sweat into, uh, apples, or whatever.

Nowadays, it's the same principle, but we've created this placeholder for apples to allow people to trade the fruits of their labor (if you will) with greater precision and ease:  money.  At the end of the day, instead of having spent your lifeforce to walk away with apples, you have spent your lifeforce to walk away with money, with which you can buy apples, or oranges, etc.  Same thing, really.

So, when you take away peoples' money for your Good Idea, what you're doing is taking away their ability to buy apples, oranges, whatever they were going to buy.  You're going back to that day that they spent at work, and re-directing the purpose of that work, away from what they intended, and toward your own purpose.  In essence, you've put them to work for you against their will.

Now, you might decide that your Good Idea is so good, that this is still okay... but people ought to know what they're doing.  Like Mafoo says, it's basically taking segments of a person's life.



TheRealMafoo said:
wfz said:
How is each dollar a segment of your life? You can survive just fine without money, people did it for thousands of years.

 

If I make 6 dollars an hour, a dollar represents 10 minutes, as that’s how much time it took me to earn a dollar.

If you take $600 from me, you have in effect taken 100 hours of my time away from me. I could have just done something else with those 100 hours. Something more self fulfilling then working for 6 bucks an hour.

If you make 6 dollars an hour, a socialized healthcare system would extend your life by more than 100 hours compared to a private healthcare system.

 



tombi123 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
wfz said:
How is each dollar a segment of your life? You can survive just fine without money, people did it for thousands of years.

 

If I make 6 dollars an hour, a dollar represents 10 minutes, as that’s how much time it took me to earn a dollar.

If you take $600 from me, you have in effect taken 100 hours of my time away from me. I could have just done something else with those 100 hours. Something more self fulfilling then working for 6 bucks an hour.

If you make 6 dollars an hour, a socialized healthcare system would extend your life by more than 100 hours compared to a private healthcare system.

 

How?  The healthcare would be the same.  Either the money gets taken from your check to pay for the socialized healthcare or you pay for it via insurance.

 



The rEVOLution is not being televised