i didnt even read the main post but i really wanna wait til janurary to give on which will come out ahead.. 360 probably will outsell it this holiday season.. but if its not by an overwhelming margin.. then i dont know..

makingmusic476 said: andrewpeirce said: I read your entire post, like you requested at the end of your post. I don't belive N64/PSX is comparable to this gen with xbox 360 vs. Sony (btw, PSX didn't "completely dominate" a much better description would be "PSX won handily") PSX came before the N64. N64 was the one hyped. N64 is the one that messed up, then later got really good first party and rare games, yet didn't win. Xbox 360 came before PS3. PS3 was the one hyped. Both Xbox 360 and PS3 messed up, but PS3 more so imo. Both are moving to fix thier mistake (N64 did not, they stuck with carts) I don't think we can predict the future. The end of this gen is still very far away. My guess though is the PS3 and Xbox 360 will be very close, either 5m away either way for either console, or perhaps virtually tied. I don't believe either will sell for than 50m. Yes, but the ps1 had the games, and it looks like the ps3 will have the games as well. My point was that the games helped the system overcome it's higher price point. Why couldn't that happen for the ps3 as well? Also, the ps1 did dominate. It beat the n64 by 60-70 mil. consoles.

 I am pretty sure that the Playstation had more games becuase a) Nintendo used carts, while sony used the superoir CD format and b)Nintendo was pretty arrogant and was treating devlopers badly

It is not clear that the PS3 will have better games than the Xbox 360 in the future. Meanwhile in the present, it is painfully obivous that Xbox 360 has a superoir lineup of games when compared to the PS3. I belive in the end Sony's strong brand name and incredible smoozing abilites will cause it to be withing 5 million units of the Xbox 360, either more less, or tied. I think it will be very similar to Xbox vs GC numbers cloness wise. I preidct PS3/Xbox 360 will sell 10m-20m more units than GC/xbox did. So it may end up at 43m PS3 and 39 Xbox 360.

However... if Sony's holiday lineup bombs and the console doens't sell very well this winter, the PS3 will have to do very well spring.summer of 08, preferrably with an $100 price cut. If the PS3 cannot close in on the Xbox 360 by this time next year (the end of summer- also closing in doenst mean pass/tie, it means get close) the PS3 will lose most of its support and will probably be 5-10 million untis behind the xbox 360. If this happens it is quite possible that the Xbox 360 could surpass 50 million units sold. 

I hate medievil personally, I have the game for the ps1 and its terrible, I dont even know why I wasted 6 dollars on it.

To get on topic:

The ps3 is going to pass the xbox 360 or is the ps3 going to keep its slow pace(as equally as fast as the x360)?

*Japan is sony's last resort if needed in the future.

*$399.99 40gb ps3 if true, will mean the end of the xbox 360(for a fact).

*MGS4(system seller) Killzone 2(if this becomes a game as great as halo alot of x360 owners will jump the sony band wagon) FF XIII(FF does miracles), LBP, and Infamous a new exclusive IP are just a taste.

*As for NG2 I doubt it wont come to the ps3 in 2008, NGS was exclusive, why cant NG2 be released?

*Kingdom hearts(maybe on wii but if on ps3 expect huge sales)

I fill a Flame war comming on Exit Thread to stage Left....

08 exclusive games probable for 360:

Fable 2, Ninja Gaiden 2, Marvel Online Universe, Too Human, APB, GTA IV Episodic Content x 2, Banjo Kazooie, Splinter Cell Conviction, Universe at War, Huxley, Alan Wake, and Halo Wars are all known to be well into development.

Also, possible for 08...

Saints Row 2, Infinite Undiscovery, more Viva Pinata stuff, and The "Peter Jackson Halo Project" also known to be well into development.

09...

Way too far out, but I'm sure Microsoft has their ducks in order for more... Kameo 2, Perfect Dark Zero 2, Forza 3, etc.?

10...
Crackdown 2, Too Human Part II, PGR 5, blah, blah, blah...?

I don't think Microsoft is lacking in exclusive titles in any future year. Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo aren't clueless, they all have plans, for all the years that will follow in this generation. Microsoft didn't load up this Xmas thinking, "Gee we won't have anything for next year if we do this..." A lot of people are paid way too much money for that to happen. And this didn't even really talk about the development of new IP that they are probably working on.

You are right, the games will help win the generation... But, we are in no position to know what games will be successes and failures... Consumers will decide the future winners...

montrealsoon said: makingmusic476 said: "If that is wishful thinking, please tell me how?" You are filtering in what is forecast of PS3 games as a plus, and lack of knowledge (obviously because such knowledge hasn't been broadcast by MS) of 360 games as a minus, and saying "ultimately succumb". The Dreamcast had a far better selection of games in 2000 than the PS2, and look at what sold better... not the one with the better selection. One could say "well, that was the Dreamcast", but the PS3 is looking more like a Dreamcast sales wise so far. It's good that you illustrated the PS3 highlights, but I don't think that alone will cause better sales. Myself, I think a price drop for PS3 will cause incrementally better sales for the PS3 that such a pricedrop for the 360. My logic is that I believe there are more people chomping at the bit for a PS3 when the price is easier to swallow. Having said that, I certainly don't believe "ultimately succumb" could describe the PS3 case against 360, or the 360 case against PS3. Thanks for your response and original article though!

That is exactly why it's NOT another Dreamcast. The Dreamcast had the games, but most people had already given up on Sega after the Saturn debacle. The Dreamcast was a great console, but it was killed by the reputation formed by it's predecessor. The ps3, however, is coming off of the legacy of the ps1&2. Just like you said, "there are more people chomping at the bit for a PS3." That is exactly why games like MGS and FF, combined with price drops, will improve ps3 sales by quite a bit.

Edit: Also, I discussed the fact taht MS has yet to announce it's new '08 games.  If they are truly coming out in '08, they'd be well into development by now.  Why wouldn't they show something about them?  They broadcast NG2 to the masses but they're hiding everything else?

makingmusic476 said: Including the faulty hardware! I kid, I kid.... Since when is the Blu-Ray format costly for developers? It would only be costly for the publishers, and the price of BD-rom media only costs ~40 cents per disc in runs of over 100,000, and that was back around the beginning of the year, so i'm sure it's far cheaper now. Devs disliked catridges for their lack of disc space (FF CGI?), not because of cost. That's why games like Ocarina of Time and Super Mario 64 used all real-time cutscenes,

Cost was a HUGE part of developers' dislike of cartridges.

Unless you think that devs didn't mind their games retailing at $60+ for N64 games while their PSX games came in at $40. 

well if you do want to bring up awful hardware quality, thats the ps2, i had 4 of them, 3 covered by warranty, the first one was not.

the original xbox, 2, my brother knocked over a burning wax candle onto the first one.

nes 1, at the end of the nes’s life i had to cram shit in it to keep the cartridge down

snes 2 , first one just stopped working, second one takes a few on offs to get working

ps1 2 , driver burned out while playing FF VII

n64 1, no problems ever

360 1, though i may take the first one in and change it out for the new model with the no questions asked warranty i have


so id say yea, sony has had crappy hardware, i played far more on my xbox than ps2, but the ps2s died every year hence me only owning 6 games for it ever, vs 29 for the xbox, original ps i had round 24

I don't get where everyone believes that there is such a pent-up demand for the PS3 and that once the price drops, sales will explode. Will sales increase if the price drops? Of course.

But if Sony drops the price, MS can just drop the 360 price again and put it at the "mass consumer" price point with a $229 Core and $300 Pro. That will more than counter anything a $400 PS3 could do in the mass market.

rocketpig said: makingmusic476 said: Including the faulty hardware! I kid, I kid.... Since when is the Blu-Ray format costly for developers? It would only be costly for the publishers, and the price of BD-rom media only costs ~40 cents per disc in runs of over 100,000, and that was back around the beginning of the year, so i'm sure it's far cheaper now. Devs disliked catridges for their lack of disc space (FF CGI?), not because of cost. That's why games like Ocarina of Time and Super Mario 64 used all real-time cutscenes, Cost was a HUGE part of developers' dislike of cartridges. Unless you think that devs didn't mind their games retailing at $60+ for N64 games while their PSX games came in at $40.

 Come to think of it, I do remember paying $90 for Goldeney when it came out.

But still, BD-roms cost ~40 cents a piece.   That's negligible to developers.