The only difference between you and the character in WRPGs are abilities. It is very interesting and novel to play an WRPG for the first time, where you can examine yourself through your actions especially if you played in earnest and picked choices just because you wanted to (instead of getting Ending A, or being able to look all cool and evil looking like in Fable). I remember, the first WRPG I played, Deus Ex, I always randomly stole from the ATM machines without a care in the world. But I remember when I stole from an ATM in a run down hotel, and then read a file later in the same hotel, that revealed that the money was from the struggling hotel owner, I realized the magnitude of my actions (as you said earlier).

You control not just the characters ability but their actions, inventory, moral and more. Yeah, pretty much what you stated about Deus Ex has WRPG aspects in the game.

That's really cool. But then once you become a regular WRPG player the magic is gone, just like when I first played a MMO as a 12-3 year old kid. You wake up in this virtual world and there's so much mystery and unknowns, but as soon as you figure the world out, you reveal to yourself that it's just another virtual world, and it breaks the suspense of disbelief, and you just start reading faqs on how to level the best character on Oblivion, or in the case of MMO's asking for buffs and using slang terms.

I'm not a regular WRPG player, I balance between WRPG's and JRPG's but I prefer WRPG's because I grew up on using my imagination from games like D&D. I actually used to sketch out my characters and people thought they were cool, so i'd do the sketch work for them as well. I am not an MMO guy, but I like WRPG's which I can immerse myself into the role. MMO's can be extremely time consuming **COUGHWOWCOUGH**. As you can see, I have recieved plenty of pointers from gamers on JRPG's and WRPG's that I should play and I am actually astonished by the results. I've looked the games up and they sound pretty interesting.

As for JRPG cliches. The argument I'm going to make is this. WRPG's aren't as good as JRPGs, not because I played all of the games from both genres and judged which has a better average score. There may be very well many cliched and horrible JRPGs (especially as a lot of them are low budget ones now). The argument I instead make is that WRPGs are not as good as JRPGs due to their nature and characteristics, which cannot be changed without changing the genre/name itself.

Then I guess you like the non RPG characteristics about JRPG's. I like those two, but I admit it. As I said, sometimes I like a bit of both worlds.

WRPGs, force you to either play as yourself, or play as a character you create. Those characters that we create are usually cliche, but that isn't necessarily part of the nature of WRPGs. Even still, if we create a very unique character, with traits and a moral code, there's no foundation to back such a wonderful character up. No history, no bad guy you can create, no fellow characters you can create, quests, etc. All you are given are a main quest, and side quests. That is why some people have described WRPGs as "soul less". Just like role playing in a MMO, we have to pretty much use every ounce of imagination to be able to step into a unique character and immerse yourself in it. Can you play as a man seeking for revenge because your family and house got burned down in Oblivion? No, you have to start from a sewer. Can you find that person who destroyed your life? No. You can only save the world from Oblivion gates and do side quests that don't relate to the character what so ever.

I dunno, there are a vast variety of people one can create. WRPG's give you different races & classes which JRPG's do not provide. There is nothing cliche about that. The settings may be cliche, but not the variety and choice. JRPG's can be cliche, because what you see is what you get and it's always based on some trend.

It's awesome if you play as yourself, because then everything does relate to YOU. But then you're not roleplaying as well, and the novelty and suspense of disbelief wears off, and there's no reason to play another WRPG unless you keep changing as a person (which we do).

Not all WRPG's are the same. The more novel and different in setting, the better. The cliche WRPG's are D&D types, but that can be expanded to even a futuristic style. Personally I love futuristic settings, which is why I love Mass Effect.

Whereas in JRPGs, they create a character for you, and the entire game backs that character up with a foundation of quests, cut scenes, scripted events that relate to it. And it manages to immerse you into that character and play as someone you aren't. If you don't actually feel like you're Cloud Strife or Squall Leonheart, then JRPGs either fail to immerse you, or you're not the type of person that gets immersed by JRPGs.

Yes, but you're watching the character and moreso helping the character by controlling their inventory and picking out moves. It's like a movie where you get to choose what they do. I like that sometimes, but not all of the time. If I want to immerse myself into a character i'll just play a really epic action title.

And yes it's a roller coaster. But again, if you play as yourself, it's the same thing. If you don't mind stealing, you'll keep stealing in any WRPG game. If you like killing, you're going to keep killing people in every WRPG. If you play as an "evil", "good", Han Solo-esque, etc character you're doing exactly what JRPG does, except to a very lesser degree, and without any foundation to really back up you up and develop that character.

In WRPG's you're not always playing yourself. You're creating a role and becoming the role. It's like being an actor if you think about it in realistic terms. Actors are actual role players.

The best WRPG for me, is a game that will change my very soul, personality, and moral code, by questioning it, even if I know that ultimately know it was a game. This isn't done by just having people call me murderer after I kill someone, or even that awesome momment in Deus Ex I described earlier. Because the only thing I got out of Deus Ex was that when I play WRPGs or video games in general, I shut off my Super Ego, and do whatever I wanted to. I already know that I am a selfish bastard, and that I only restrain myself for society and law. So the next WRPG I play better make me realize something I already didn't know.

I'll try Deus EX, good talk.