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Forums - General - Bush Era Torture Memos Released

Rainbird said:
Tyrannical said:
I think some of us need a European history refresher to learn what torture actually is.

Oooohhh, I get it! You're referring to the torture that happened all those 100 years ago, before Europe was democratic and before we all agreed on some basic human rights, right? Before modern civilization, right?

 

Was WII all that long ago?



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

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Tyrannical said:
Rainbird said:
Tyrannical said:
I think some of us need a European history refresher to learn what torture actually is.

Oooohhh, I get it! You're referring to the torture that happened all those 100 years ago, before Europe was democratic and before we all agreed on some basic human rights, right? Before modern civilization, right?

Was WII all that long ago?

Ah shit. Damn british, ruining our reputation!

Oh well, still before NATO, UN and the Universal  Declaration of Human Rights were established, which the US has been operating under the past 50-60 years.



Rainbird said:
Tyrannical said:
Rainbird said:
Tyrannical said:
I think some of us need a European history refresher to learn what torture actually is.

Oooohhh, I get it! You're referring to the torture that happened all those 100 years ago, before Europe was democratic and before we all agreed on some basic human rights, right? Before modern civilization, right?

Was WII all that long ago?

Ah shit. Damn british, ruining our reputation!

Oh well, still before NATO, UN and the Universal  Declaration of Human Rights were established, which the US has been operating under the past 50-60 years.

Well, it's easy to be moral when you aren't involved in a war. I'm sure Denmark was the pinnacle of morality in Europe, so abhored by the thought of war they surrendered to Hitler after only two hours.

But sometimes you can't rely on other to save you, and you have to make the tough decisions to save yourself that you clearly can not.

 



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

I don't know what's scarier... That they would approve some of those things or that some people are willing to defend their practices.

Some quotes from an AP article:

Blindfolded, hooded and wearing earmuffs, suspected terrorists were shackled and flown to secret interrogation centers. The buildings themselves were quiet, clinical and designed to fill prisoners with dread. Detainees were shaved, stripped and photographed nude.


Prisoners were naked, shackled and hooded to start their interrogation sessions. When the CIA interrogator removed the hood, the questioning began. Whenever the prisoner resisted, the documents outlined a series of techniques the CIA could use to bring him back in line:

_ Nudity, sleep deprivation and dietary restrictions kept prisoners compliant and reminded them they had no control over their basic needs. Clothes and food could be used as rewards for cooperation.

_ Slapping prisoners on the face or abdomen was allowed. So was grabbing them forcefully by the collar or slamming them into a false wall, a technique called "walling" that had a goal of fear more than pain.

_ Water hoses were used to douse the prisoners for minutes at a time. The hoses were turned on and off as the interrogation continued.

_ Prisoners were put into one of three in "stress positions," such as sitting on the floor with legs out straight and arms raised in the air to cause discomfort.

At night, the detainees were shackled, standing naked or wearing a diaper. The length of sleep deprivation varied by prisoner but was authorized for up to 180 hours, or 7 1/2 days. Interrogation sessions ranged from 30 minutes to several hours and could be repeated as necessary and as approved by psychological and medical teams.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iuJ3DEDZX7Jz859zNb6zfSBSG7aAD97K3A080

Just terrible that this would happen in the 21st century in a supposedly civilized country.



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

Tyrannical said:
Rainbird said:
Tyrannical said:
Rainbird said:
Tyrannical said:
I think some of us need a European history refresher to learn what torture actually is.

Oooohhh, I get it! You're referring to the torture that happened all those 100 years ago, before Europe was democratic and before we all agreed on some basic human rights, right? Before modern civilization, right?

Was WII all that long ago?

Ah shit. Damn british, ruining our reputation!

Oh well, still before NATO, UN and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights were established, which the US has been operating under the past 50-60 years.

Well, it's easy to be moral when you aren't involved in a war. I'm sure Denmark was the pinnacle of morality in Europe, so abhored by the thought of war they surrendered to Hitler after only two hours.

But sometimes you can't rely on other to save you, and you have to make the tough decisions to save yourself that you clearly can not.

Ah yes, pinnacle of moral. Not really of course, but we're not the ones who were torturing people in Afghanistan, even though we were there fighting.

My point is, torture is unacceptable in any shape or form, and currently, we have more agreements to keep it from happening than ever before, and more responsibility to keep these agreements in tact.



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Tyrannical said:

Well, it's easy to be moral when you aren't involved in a war. I'm sure Denmark was the pinnacle of morality in Europe, so abhored by the thought of war they surrendered to Hitler after only two hours.

But sometimes you can't rely on other to save you, and you have to make the tough decisions to save yourself that you clearly can not.

 

Oh, the "war" on terrorism. Apparently anything can be justified when you apply the "war" moniker.

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

Terrorism does not exist until the 9/11 event.



Tyrannical said:

Well, it's easy to be moral when you aren't involved in a war. I'm sure Denmark was the pinnacle of morality in Europe, so abhored by the thought of war they surrendered to Hitler after only two hours.

But sometimes you can't rely on other to save you, and you have to make the tough decisions to save yourself that you clearly can not.

 

Now you're trying to erect a strawman to deflect away from the issue. What happened over 60 years ago in Europe is quite irrelevant to what has just happened in America.



I have to stress this part of the article again...

"Detainees were shaved, stripped and photographed nude."

This was before they were even interrogated... Right from the start, all of their human dignity is taken away. I don't understand how someone with any compassion can approve of this.

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

NJ5 said:

I have to stress this part of the article again...

"Detainees were shaved, stripped and photographed nude."

This was before they were even interrogated... Right from the start, all of their human dignity is taken away. I don't understand how someone with any compassion can approve of this.

 

 

It's not done on them, not their problem.

It's only a problem if they are victimized.