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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Has Zelda franchise lost its way since Ocarina?

Definitely not. Critically and commercially, it shows that the series has not.

And in fan response? Well, the uproar was massive when we were first shown Wind Waker, but hardly anyone actually complained after playing the game. So no, I don't think it's in trouble there either.



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I'm gonna refrase the article a bit, see if you think this is more understandable.

 

Ocarina of Time was brilliant. It had an enourmous freedom, very little "dead time", marvellous graphics, fantastic sound, and a fair bit more.

Majora's mark was essentially the same, but it added 2 things. 1) The "3 days". These took away a lot of your freedom. A lot of it. 2) It added the Deku/Goron/Zora forms, which frankly were less interesting than pure Link.

WindWaker added a TON of dead time. You spent ages driving your boat around that field, which is terrible compared to how little running there actually was in OoT. It also changes the gameplay a bit, and it completely revamps the graphics (for the worse). The game was also far easier than any previous Zelda.

Twilight Princess was essentially OoT, but with a crappy wolf form added, less interesting story (dumbed down), and a more linear experience.

 

Of course, this is sounding far too negative. Agree with any of this?

 



http://www.vgchartz.com/games/userreviewdisp.php?id=261

That is VGChartz LONGEST review. And it's NOT Cute Kitten DS

Agreeing with your paraphrasing or with the article itself? Your paraphrasing sounds about right.



I haven't played WW but for me Twilight Princess just lacked the magic of Majoras Mask and especially Ocarina. It just felt like an ordinary (though very good) game rather than a completely absorbing and amazing experience.



Oyvoyvoyv said:

I'm gonna refrase the article a bit, see if you think this is more understandable.

 

Ocarina of Time was brilliant. It had an enourmous freedom, very little "dead time", marvellous graphics, fantastic sound, and a fair bit more.

Majora's mark was essentially the same, but it added 2 things. 1) The "3 days". These took away a lot of your freedom. A lot of it. 2) It added the Deku/Goron/Zora forms, which frankly were less interesting than pure Link.

WindWaker added a TON of dead time. You spent ages driving your boat around that field, which is terrible compared to how little running there actually was in OoT. It also changes the gameplay a bit, and it completely revamps the graphics (for the worse). The game was also far easier than any previous Zelda.

Twilight Princess was essentially OoT, but with a crappy wolf form added, less interesting story (dumbed down), and a more linear experience.

 

Of course, this is sounding far too negative. Agree with any of this?

 

Come on, we shouldn't even bother arguing over this crappy article. It's 100% opinion, no facts. 

"MM was essentially the same"... gimme a break! It was as different as it gets! Completely different story, different world, different playable character, different mood, different music, and most importantly, different core gameplay. The "3 days" were absolutely essential, not just a gimmick. And the way NPC's and sidequests were handled was unique, too.

And why is the TP wolf form "crappy"? Cause he says so? Aah, it really gets me upset... this guy is like a spoiled kid, who can't decide if he wants more of the same or something new.



Currently playing: NSMB (Wii) 

Waiting for: Super Mario Galaxy 2 (Wii), The Last Story (Wii), Golden Sun (DS), Portal 2 (Wii? or OSX), Metroid: Other M (Wii), 
... and of course Zelda (Wii) 
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ElRhodeo said:
Oyvoyvoyv said:

I'm gonna refrase the article a bit, see if you think this is more understandable.

 

Ocarina of Time was brilliant. It had an enourmous freedom, very little "dead time", marvellous graphics, fantastic sound, and a fair bit more.

Majora's mark was essentially the same, but it added 2 things. 1) The "3 days". These took away a lot of your freedom. A lot of it. 2) It added the Deku/Goron/Zora forms, which frankly were less interesting than pure Link.

WindWaker added a TON of dead time. You spent ages driving your boat around that field, which is terrible compared to how little running there actually was in OoT. It also changes the gameplay a bit, and it completely revamps the graphics (for the worse). The game was also far easier than any previous Zelda.

Twilight Princess was essentially OoT, but with a crappy wolf form added, less interesting story (dumbed down), and a more linear experience.

 

Of course, this is sounding far too negative. Agree with any of this?

 

Come on, we shouldn't even bother arguing over this crappy article. It's 100% opinion, no facts.

"MM was essentially the same"... gimme a break! It was as different as it gets! Completely different story, different world, different playable character, different mood, different music, and most importantly, different core gameplay. The "3 days" were absolutely essential, not just a gimmick. And the way NPC's and sidequests were handled was unique, too.

And why is the TP wolf form "crappy"? Cause he says so? Aah, it really gets me upset... this guy is like a spoiled kid, who can't decide if he wants more of the same or something new.

 

 I already said something like that.

What I wrote is an attempt of making it sound more understandable. I don't mean everything I wrote, I tried rephrasing the article, so that some people might agree. Just saying "the article fails" won't help in any way. When the article is first posted, you might as well try to find something interesting about it.



http://www.vgchartz.com/games/userreviewdisp.php?id=261

That is VGChartz LONGEST review. And it's NOT Cute Kitten DS

No.



the only problem with WW was that it had a bit too much water (would have wanted a bit more land indeed)... but the boat idea was great, cell shading is great, story was nice... great game.



OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO

No.

Majoras Mask was the most magical Zelda game.

Wind Waker let you see the ocean instead of forest. Change isn`t bad. Cell what? Who cares?

Twilight Princess was Ocarina of Time all over with funny Wii controls. This was the first Wii game and I loved to try out the nunchuck and Wiimote.



Zelda does need a refresh.. The main innovation we've been seeing is in the mode of transport horse -> boat -> train..

I also think that the train idea probably came out of brainstorming for Zelda Wii so they'll be fairly big changes to that game when it arrives in 2010.

For example this article may explain why Twilight Princess didn't have that magic that people can't quite put their finger on..

"At the 2007 Game Developer's Conference, The Legend of Zelda director/producer Eiji Aonuma gave a revealing speech in which he said that since the release of Ocarina of Time, the series had been failing to deliver anything truly new. He noted how he and other designers had simply been stacking content onto an already-established formula, resulting in games that increasingly bored the core audience and kept newcomers from being able to jump in comfortably.

Perhaps it was this kind of thinking that compelled Nintendo to offer so many in-game hints and instructions. Certainly, it's this kind of thinking that has led the designers into turning one game's clever gameplay devices into what seems to be regarded now as doctrine. For example, the simple idea of moving a block to open a secret door in the original title turned into Wind Waker requiring players to move around blocks with mirrors attached in such a way that the reflections of light align and a door is opened."

continued at http://www.n-philes.com/news/4630/a-matter-of-control/

It goes on to say that Aonuma has been focused on controls to change it up but in the end Phantom Hourglass was much more linear and didn't have the the exploration aspect of Zelda. It praises the Ocean King's temple as being dynamic however.

Zelda Wii will be linear as the new comers that Nintendo want to attract will not want to play a game that they don't know where to go or what to do half the time. However it won't follow the same OoT, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess formula (haven't played MM so I'm not sure if that's the same), it'll go it's own way and if it doesn't, Nintendo will see lower review scores, lower sales and a HUGE re think will take place and we'll get a completely different Zelda game 5 years after Zelda Wii.

Change simply has to happen, Nintendo needs to look at the strong points of the games, innovate in those areas and either get rid of or rethink things that aren't working.

Something that didn't work in TP was hyrule field.. They wanted to show how large Hyrule was but having an empty field made me think it was actually pretty small.. It wasn't believable to me that the Twilight enveloping the land was really making an impact.. The castle and the kingdom didn't seem to be very important.. Zelda had something like 20 soldiers protecting her when Zant came with his ultimatum. Things like help from Animals and even side quests from animals could have been leveraged much more..

Speaking of side quests.. the NPC's were terrible and that's something memorable about WW, the NPC's all had a distinctive look, personality and story and many of them intertwined.. TP was weak in that aspect.. The dungeons were also too similar to past dungeons for the most part however there were some memorable ones (the snow cabin for example) and the items were the same old thing again..

Zelda Wii needs to show us a living breathing world where we can feel the consequences of in game events and we can believe it. It needs to leverage the Wii Remote and Nunchuk to give us new ways to interact with the Zelda world, not just M+ for sword control either but completely new items that aren't possible or simply aren't fun without the Wii Remote. It needs to suprise the core and excite new comers. It needs to be a game that surpasses the level of innovation found in Super Mario Galaxy.

It's a huge ask but this is exactly what makes Nintendo games the best. Constant innovation that turns a genre on it's head. Industry defining games and people asking how come other companies can't make a game like that. If it takes another 2 years, so be it.