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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Dead Rising 2 has multiplayer, up to 6000 zombies on screen

NJ5 said:
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
kowenicki said:
6000 on one screen? one question... how?

Are they the size of a grain of rice? Are they a long long way away? makes no sense to me.

It's really not that big of a deal.  Having different AI for them would be a big deal.  There was a simulation with over 15,000 objects (chickens) with their own A.I. on the Cell (page 5).  Without individual A.I. (i.e. minimal crowd A.I.), MLB 09:The Show has around 50,000 people in the stadium stands moving around.

 

But did you read the whole sentence?

"In fact, when the number of chickens was increased to a total of 15,000 birds the Cell B./E. processor was still able to perform the simulation with interactive speed, but the graphics rendering was not able to keep pace, even on a state-of-the-art NVidia GPU and started dropping 2 out of 3 frames, resulting in 10fps "sluggish" video output."

 

Yes, I did read the whole sentence (the whole PDF for that matter...more than once).  Did you read my sentence about MLB 09: The Show?  Those chickens each had individual A.I. routines.  The zombies in Dead Rising didn't have their own routines in mass.  Only the closest zombies to you would have individual A.I. routines.  It's no different from the 20,000+ soldiers on the ground in Lair.  I don't see any reason to think the 6,000 zombies in part two would be that different, do you?

 



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Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
NJ5 said:
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
kowenicki said:
6000 on one screen? one question... how?

Are they the size of a grain of rice? Are they a long long way away? makes no sense to me.

It's really not that big of a deal.  Having different AI for them would be a big deal.  There was a simulation with over 15,000 objects (chickens) with their own A.I. on the Cell (page 5).  Without individual A.I. (i.e. minimal crowd A.I.), MLB 09:The Show has around 50,000 people in the stadium stands moving around.

 

But did you read the whole sentence?

"In fact, when the number of chickens was increased to a total of 15,000 birds the Cell B./E. processor was still able to perform the simulation with interactive speed, but the graphics rendering was not able to keep pace, even on a state-of-the-art NVidia GPU and started dropping 2 out of 3 frames, resulting in 10fps "sluggish" video output."

 

Yes, I did.  Did you read my sentence about MLB 09: The Show?  Those chickens each had individual A.I. routines.  The zombies in Dead Rising didn't have their own routines in mass.  Only the closest zombies to you would have individual A.I. routines.  It's no different from the 20,000+ soldiers on the ground in Lair.  I don't see any reason to think the 6,000 zombies in part two would be that different, do you?

 

But what does AI have to do with sluggish rendering? Levels of graphical detail are the real issue here, but I guess they can use tricks to render the far-away characters with less detail.

 



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NJ5 said:
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
NJ5 said:
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
kowenicki said:
6000 on one screen? one question... how?

Are they the size of a grain of rice? Are they a long long way away? makes no sense to me.

It's really not that big of a deal.  Having different AI for them would be a big deal.  There was a simulation with over 15,000 objects (chickens) with their own A.I. on the Cell (page 5).  Without individual A.I. (i.e. minimal crowd A.I.), MLB 09:The Show has around 50,000 people in the stadium stands moving around.

 

But did you read the whole sentence?

"In fact, when the number of chickens was increased to a total of 15,000 birds the Cell B./E. processor was still able to perform the simulation with interactive speed, but the graphics rendering was not able to keep pace, even on a state-of-the-art NVidia GPU and started dropping 2 out of 3 frames, resulting in 10fps "sluggish" video output."

 

Yes, I did.  Did you read my sentence about MLB 09: The Show?  Those chickens each had individual A.I. routines.  The zombies in Dead Rising didn't have their own routines in mass.  Only the closest zombies to you would have individual A.I. routines.  It's no different from the 20,000+ soldiers on the ground in Lair.  I don't see any reason to think the 6,000 zombies in part two would be that different, do you?

 

But what does AI have to do with sluggish rendering? Levels of graphical detail are the real issue here, but I guess they can use tricks to render the far-away characters with less detail.

 

If the processor is busy with keeping track of over 15,000 different A.I. routines, it can't help on the graphics end.  That's just one thing.  However, you seemed to completely have ignored the information concerning MLB 09: The Show and Lair which draw tens of thousands of 3D characters at up to 60fps @1920x1080p in MLB 09: The Show's case (1600x1080@30fps for Lair) with good detail.  Why is that?  It still proves that 6,000 zombies is no big deal.

 



Ascended_Saiyan3 said:

If the processor is busy with keeping track of over 15,000 different A.I. routines, it can't help on the graphics end.  That's just one thing.  However, you seemed to completely have ignored the information concerning MLB 09: The Show and Lair which draw tens of thousands of 3D characters at up to 60fps (in MLB 09: The Show's case).  Why is that?  It still proves that 6,000 zombies is no big deal.

 

It doesn't seem to me that they were using the CPU for rendering in that demo. Anyway, my point is that GPU power is far more limiting.

I didn't say 6000 zombies in itself is a big deal, it all depends on how much graphical detail there is.

 



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NinjaKido said:

6000 individual enemies or 5970 enemies just for show with 30 enemies being the real threat .

-I'm guessing DR2 would get a graphics downgrade from DR1 to compensate for the substantial enemy increase , I think even the most advanced PC's on the market would have trouble rendering that let alone our current gen console.
-How the hell would you see 6000 enemies at a time , is DR2 going to be an RTS ?

Sounds like alot of hot air ... I thought this was going on the PS3 & 360 until I actualy read the OP so this isn't an attack on the 360.


"though Capcom themselves haven’t been able to prove any concrete details on the matter." WTF ?

You haven't played xxx Total War, have you?

 



Tease.

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Your last minute GPU point, in the face of a massive CPU like the Cell, has no context within the realm of this discussion.  No GPU at the time could handle that kind of pressure put on it by the CPU.



Ascended_Saiyan3 said:

Your last minute GPU point, in the face of a massive CPU like the Cell, has no context within the realm of this discussion.  No GPU at the time could handle that kind of pressure put on it by the CPU.

The article came out in 2007 which is around the time when the current-gen consoles launched. Also keep in mind that a game is not just rendering characters unlike those simple tech demos, there's also scenery to render.

The point here is that some thousands of objects is the point where the GPU starts to suffer (while the CPU can still handle AI fine). How many thousands depends on the GPU and level of detail of course. Now unless you disagree I don't think there's a need to continue the discussion.

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

NJ5 said:
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
kowenicki said:
6000 on one screen? one question... how?

Are they the size of a grain of rice? Are they a long long way away? makes no sense to me.

It's really not that big of a deal.  Having different AI for them would be a big deal.  There was a simulation with over 15,000 objects (chickens) with their own A.I. on the Cell (page 5).  Without individual A.I. (i.e. minimal crowd A.I.), MLB 09:The Show has around 50,000 people in the stadium stands moving around.

 

But did you read the whole sentence?

"In fact, when the number of chickens was increased to a total of 15,000 birds the Cell B./E. processor was still able to perform the simulation with interactive speed, but the graphics rendering was not able to keep pace, even on a state-of-the-art NVidia GPU and started dropping 2 out of 3 frames, resulting in 10fps "sluggish" video output."

 

 

well.. things have come a long way since then :p



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Maybe each individual chicken was very detailed.

 



Slimebeast said:

Maybe each individual chicken was very detailed.

 

 

it was super chick(en)s .. anyways the software and api for the cell has come a long way since then.



Check out my game about moles ^