You don't have to believe in fate or destiny, it simply is so. You thinking you have a choice is simply an illusion caused by your logic determing that you think you have a choice , based on the fact that it seems to be the most logical answer to you, because you're concious and can feel like you're choosing things. You may feel like you're choosing to do something, but that's because you have selected it to be to most suitable world view. Everything is deterministic. I may be choosing to smoke, but it was written in the starts. Note me saying it was written in the stars is figurative, I don't believe in astrology.

There's no such thing as choice. I'm not even choosing to write this. My brain is determining to, even though I do give myself the illusion of choice by doing this, and I could give myself an alternate illusion of choice by determining to do something else, like not post this. But I feel the need to post this because from a logical standpoint we do not have choice.

Only from delusions can we somehow think we have any choice in anything. For example, a man is pointing a gun at you, he says he's going to shoot. You can choose to move and not be shot, or stay and be shot. The obvious choice is to move. Why is it obvious? Because your brain has determined that, either conciously through logic, or subconciously through survival instinct. What if someone chooses not to move? Their concious logic overcame their survival instinct, they did not make the 'choice' to die, even though they thought they did. Something - a cause - effected their decision to move, some influence that they encountered. There is no way to escape the fact that everything is predetermined.

Everything is the result of cause and effect, fate. Believe it or not, the fact that you don't believe it is simply more proof of cause and effect...

Cause: Conciousness, awareness

Effect: You think you have a choice and deny that everything is deterministic

Louie said: The great thing about god is no matter how illogical your explanations for him are you can always say "it's god, he doesn't follow our rules". You can pretty much explain everything (even why 1 + 1= 3) with that system of arguing.

I hate the 'god is outside our logic' bullshit.

People claiming god is out of system of logic without any proof for the statement, is lame.

How do they know this? They don't, they just guess. They know nothing about god.

I believe logic is above god, logic is transcendent of all things. 1 + 1 will always equal 2 within the laws of standard mathematics, even god cannot change that. He may be able to destoy the universe and make math a different way, but the fact remains, 1 + 1 will always equal 2, even if our system of mathematics was gone, even if no one was here to think those thoughts.

You don't have to believe in fate or destiny, it simply is so. You thinking you have a choice is simply an illusion caused by your logic determing that you think you have a choice , based on the fact that it seems to be the most logical answer to you, because you're concious and can feel like you're choosing things. You may feel like you're choosing to do something, but that's because you have selected it to be to most suitable world view. Everything is deterministic. I may be choosing to smoke, but it was written in the starts. Note me saying it was written in the stars is figurative, I don't believe in astrology.

There's no such thing as choice. I'm not even choosing to write this. My brain is determining to, even though I do give myself the illusion of choice by doing this, and I could give myself an alternate illusion of choice by determining to do something else, like not post this. But I feel the need to post this because from a logical standpoint we do not have choice.

Only from delusions can we somehow think we have any choice in anything. For example, a man is pointing a gun at you, he says he's going to shoot. You can choose to move and not be shot, or stay and be shot. The obvious choice is to move. Why is it obvious? Because your brain has determined that, either conciously through logic, or subconciously through survival instinct. What if someone chooses not to move? Their concious logic overcame their survival instinct, they did not make the 'choice' to die, even though they thought they did. Something - a cause - effected their decision to move, some influence that they encountered. There is no way to escape the fact that everything is predetermined.

Everything is the result of cause and effect, fate. Believe it or not, the fact that you don't believe it is simply more proof of cause and effect...

Cause: Conciousness, awareness

Effect: You think you have a choice and deny that everything is deterministic

Louie said: The great thing about god is no matter how illogical your explanations for him are you can always say "it's god, he doesn't follow our rules". You can pretty much explain everything (even why 1 + 1= 3) with that system of arguing.

I hate the 'god is outside of logic' bullshit.

People claiming god is outside of logic without any proof for the statement, is lame.

How do they know this? They don't, they just guess. They know nothing about god.

I believe logic is above god, logic is transcendent of all things. 1 + 1 will always equal 2 within the laws of standard mathematics, even god cannot change that. He may be able to destoy the universe and make math a different way, but the fact remains, 1 + 1 will always equal 2, even if our system of mathematics was gone, even if no one was here to think those thoughts.

The fact that we can't see a cause don't mean it isn't caused.

Absense of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Louie said: @mmnim: Or maybe, just maybe there isn't even a god and we don't have to build up any complicated and obscure way of thinkings? Ever thought about that?

But its so fun and if we just write off possibilities because we think they are silly then we might miss something extraordinary.  If it does no harm to keep the possibility in mind, then why not?

mmnin said: WessleWoggle said: Louie said: The great thing about god is no matter how illogical your explanations for him are you can always say "it's god, he doesn't follow our rules". You can pretty much explain everything (even why 1 + 1= 3) with that system of arguing.     I hate the 'god is outside of logic' bullshit. People claiming god is outside of logic without any proof for the statement, is lame. How do they know this? They don't, they just guess. They know nothing about god. I believe logic is above god, logic is transcendent of all things. 1 + 1 will always equal 2 within the laws of standard mathematics, even god cannot change that. He may be able to destoy the universe and make math a different way, but the fact remains, 1 + 1 will always equal 2, even if our system of mathematics was gone, even if no one was here to think those thoughts.     Well I believe that God IS true logic and that it may not be within our grasp.  If it were, we would not still be discovering new things and gaining stronger understandings.  I believe that they exist harmoneously.  No Christian knows the true manifestation of God, so definitely there is room for conjecture.  I am not blindly saying that "God is outside of logic."  But I AM saying that as of this point there is still no way to prove or disprove the existence of God. Regardless of if absolute TRUTH (true logic) is yet to be fully discovered, if you can believe so strongly in logic in general, then there is nothing wrong with believing in all true God.  It is possible that are one in the same for each person respectively.

IT might be in our grasp if we all form a circle and meditate. Woohoo! Spirituality much?

I believe that logic is the source of all things. I believe the source of all things is 'god'. For that reason philisophically I don't like the label god, only 'source'. God has too much baggage as a word.