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Forums - Gaming Discussion - 360 CPU and Cell are fairly equal according to Dave Shippy

joeorc on 24 February 2009
Procrastinato said:
Cueil said:

SPE's are not cores... they are more like the ALUs in the PS2 than they are CPUs... they don't run at the same frequency as the PPC core does much less the rest of the SPEs.  That sentence made sense if you understood what I was talking about.  I'd salute your ignorance, but then again being interested in this type of thing isn't every ones forte and thus I let you off the hook.  The reason I go off like this is because of trying to understand their prefered console they spew out numbers that they hardly can grasp and past shit they find on google to their post to make it seem like they may know what they are talking about.

 

You do realize that any schmuck can look up the BS that you just spewed on wikipedia, and any other source, and you'll look like a fool, right?

If you're serious with your comments... you need some help... or maybe just some reading skills.

 

not only is he being a schmuck but i have the proof 100% the SPE's are CORES that each SPE does indeed run at 3.2 GHz

and you cannot have a "multicore processor" if there is only one core

thus who is right about A PROCESSOR'S DESIGN?

DR. peter Hofstee the chief designer of the CELL

or

Cueil

lol @Cueil

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

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Fishie on 24 February 2009
Procrastinato said:
Fishie said:

 Not even that.

In 2K7 the games industry in the US passed box office sales.

Thing is that included the price of the hardware and services.

Take those away and it didnt even come close.

 

Now look at it world wide and the entire games industry INCLUDING hardware sales doesnt even come close to worldwide box office revenue(Bollywood thanks you).

 

Actually, the video game market blew DVD sales (not DVD + Box Office.. yet) out of the water last year.  You're at least 0 for 2 now.

Here's an educational link:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6203677.html

 

 

Its one of the most perpetuated lies in existence.

When these outlets talk about box office revenue in the US or worldwide getting beat by videogames they count videogame hardware and compare it to ONLY US OUTPUT.  Basically its HOLLYWOOD AND THATS IT.

Thats why I mentioned Bollywood, count international box office revenue from all movies made worldwide and the entire games industry DOES NOT EVEN COMPARE.

 

Regardles of those things though I first reacted to a post that said games made more money then movies.

And that one is laughable to the extreme.

With movies you first get theatrical releases, then DVD`s, pay per view, cable and network rights, airline and cruiseline rights, merchandising at chain restaurants(McDonalds pays big bucks for something like Wal E) etcetera. All continuing revenue streams games dont get.



joeorc on 24 February 2009
Cueil said:
joeorc said:

 

@

Cueil

No one needs to read past your ignorant 9 core statement to know that you don't even have the slightest clue as to what you're talking about. How about doing some research on the Cell before spewing out number some idiot post on the official PlayStation forums. SPEs are not cores and they most certainly don't all run at 3.2 ghz the Cell is an asynchronous processor. If your ignorance was any greater you would choke and die on it. Multiplats look better on the 360 because the system was designed as a gaming platform first and formost and was build with developers wishes in mind.

 

your a very funny guy..IF you would have done research your self , you would have indeed known that the SPU's are indeed CORES

I GUESS you know more about it than

Dr. H. Peter Hofstee, Cell Chief Scientist and Cell Synergistic Processor Chief Architect

"The use of multi-core processors, such as the IBM Cell Processor" you can't be a multi-core processor with only one Core

One of the Multi-Core sessions will be led by Dr. H. Peter Hofstee, Cell Chief Scientist and Cell Synergistic Processor Chief Architect, with the IBM Systems and Technology Group. Hofstee joined the IBM Austin Research Laboratory in 1996 where he worked on the world's first 1GHz CMOS integer microprocessor. In 2001, he was one of the founding members of the joint Sony-Toshiba-IBM design center in Austin to develop the next generation of microprocessors for the broadband era. Dr. Hofstee received his Ph.D. in computer science from Caltech in 1995 and was on the faculty there through 1996.

"Dr. Hofstee's participation in the conference is a huge plus for the industry," said Dr. Winthrop Smith, leader of the Multi-Core Processor Tutorial. "The cell processor will affect all players in the digital entertainment, enterprise computing and semiconductor industry sectors. Dr. Hofstee will be able to share his unique insight with conference attendees."

 

dr. Hofstee say's they are Core's..hmm who is right you or the:

Dr. H. Peter Hofstee, Cell Chief Scientist and Cell Synergistic Processor Chief Architect

 

 

 

 

 He can call his shit what ever they fuck he wants, but they are not cores... The Cell itself is a core that has one PPC and 8 SPEs.  We can argue over this bs all day and never get anywhere, but a multi-core system isn't a CPU with some specilized "processors" on it...

yea let's just ignore the man who designed the "D@MN chip itself"

 

did you design the chip?

did you ?

i tend to think he know's more about his D@MN CHIP THAN YOU DO

 

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

Procrastinato on 24 February 2009

Cueil. Don't take this the wrong way man, but you're concept of what the SPEs are is just plain wrong. Its fine that you don't understand it. Lots of people who don't really know what the Cell is don't. They make assumptions, and get defensive when someone who does know corrects them.

You really should just calm down and try and understand why us 'know-nothings' are telling you you're wrong though. Go do a little research, ask some questions, and you're understanding will improve vastly. Hanging onto the preconceived notions you've got right now isn't doing you any favors.

You can trust that I know more about the Cell architecture, and hardware architecture in general, than 99.9% of the posters here, or you can call me a random internet-guy, and blow what I say off, only to face having to learn it again later, if your life has anything to do with computer hardware, or this kind of stuff in general.

Most people choose to do the latter. Heck that's what I love to do.

Have a mug of brew, and chill out.



 

Cueil on 24 February 2009
Procrastinato said:
Cueil said:

SPE's are not cores... they are more like the ALUs in the PS2 than they are CPUs... they don't run at the same frequency as the PPC core does much less the rest of the SPEs.  That sentence made sense if you understood what I was talking about.  I'd salute your ignorance, but then again being interested in this type of thing isn't every ones forte and thus I let you off the hook.  The reason I go off like this is because of trying to understand their prefered console they spew out numbers that they hardly can grasp and past shit they find on google to their post to make it seem like they may know what they are talking about.

 

You do realize that any schmuck can look up the BS that you just spewed on wikipedia, and any other source, and you'll look like a fool, right?

If you're serious with your comments... you need some help... or maybe just some reading skills.

 

 

 I don't need to go look at a site that can be edited by anyone.  I've been following the Cell since 2002.  The processor is a monster at many things, but it was never build for gaming as it's primary idea.  The SPE's all send and process data at different rates(fixed rates)... if you go and read up on some programmers talking about the difficulties of dealing with that fact you'd understand.  I'm not trying to discredit the Cell, but people think it's the end all be all and it's not.  It has many flaws that hold it back and Sony's implementation of it in the PS3 was half assed like most of what they did this gen.  And the Cell in the PS3 inly has 6 SPEs for use for games.



 
Get your Portable ID!

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heruamon on 24 February 2009
Fishie said:
Procrastinato said:
Fishie said:

 Not even that.

In 2K7 the games industry in the US passed box office sales.

Thing is that included the price of the hardware and services.

Take those away and it didnt even come close.

 

Now look at it world wide and the entire games industry INCLUDING hardware sales doesnt even come close to worldwide box office revenue(Bollywood thanks you).

 

Actually, the video game market blew DVD sales (not DVD + Box Office.. yet) out of the water last year.  You're at least 0 for 2 now.

Here's an educational link:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6203677.html

 

 

Its one of the most perpetuated lies in existence.

When these outlets talk about box office revenue in the US or worldwide getting beat by videogames they count videogame hardware and compare it to ONLY US OUTPUT.  Basically its HOLLYWOOD AND THATS IT.

Thats why I mentioned Bollywood, count international box office revenue from all movies made worldwide and the entire games industry DOES NOT EVEN COMPARE.

 

Regardles of those things though I first reacted to a post that said games made more money then movies.

And that one is laughable to the extreme.

With movies you first get theatrical releases, then DVD`s, pay per view, cable and network rights, airline and cruiseline rights, merchandising at chain restaurants(McDonalds pays big bucks for something like Wal E) etcetera. All continuing revenue streams games dont get.

 

 

It's apples to oranges...in these comparisons, and as you stated, mostly covering Hollywood films, whereas the gmaes catgory cover everything related to videogaming...seems to be a unbalanced comparison at best.



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

Procrastinato on 24 February 2009
Fishie said:
Procrastinato said:
Fishie said:

 Not even that.

In 2K7 the games industry in the US passed box office sales.

Thing is that included the price of the hardware and services.

Take those away and it didnt even come close.

 

Now look at it world wide and the entire games industry INCLUDING hardware sales doesnt even come close to worldwide box office revenue(Bollywood thanks you).

 

Actually, the video game market blew DVD sales (not DVD + Box Office.. yet) out of the water last year.  You're at least 0 for 2 now.

Here's an educational link:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6203677.html

 

 

Its one of the most perpetuated lies in existence.

When these outlets talk about box office revenue in the US or worldwide getting beat by videogames they count videogame hardware and compare it to ONLY US OUTPUT.  Basically its HOLLYWOOD AND THATS IT.

Thats why I mentioned Bollywood, count international box office revenue from all movies made worldwide and the entire games industry DOES NOT EVEN COMPARE.

 

Regardles of those things though I first reacted to a post that said games made more money then movies.

And that one is laughable to the extreme.

With movies you first get theatrical releases, then DVD`s, pay per view, cable and network rights, airline and cruiseline rights, merchandising at chain restaurants(McDonalds pays big bucks for something like Wal E) etcetera. All continuing revenue streams games dont get.

The link explicitly states that its talking worldwide revenue.  You're saying they're making it up?  Or... you're trying to lump in a whole load of other industries to change the argument?

 



 

Fishie on 24 February 2009
joeorc said:
Fishie said:
joeorc said:
NJ5 said:

@Procastinato: So now most engine programmers are newbs? That's like the "developers are lazy" argument, it completely ignores one of the most important matters of game development - cost. Time equals money, the Cell equals more invested time in engine programming, which equals more money spent.

It's not that developers are lazy or stupid, it's that they have limited time and budget. Sony needs to learn that lesson and make developer-friendly consoles.

 

it's not like that, yes more time does mean more money..but also it mean's you as a developer will not be prepaired for the next trend in Microprocessor's..like the Cell processor..if you look at the way the New processor's from Intel,Ati,Nvidia and Amd, IBM, STI they are all producing

CPU/GPU combo chip's it's learn it now or later ..that's the developer's choice, some are learning it now

 

 Why do you keep talking about stuff you dont understand and stuff like STI(Sony bailed out of the project, look it up so even Sony gave up on CELL)that no longer exists?

 

o'l brother..bailing..huh, look who happen's to hold patent's on the Cell processor, and guess what Sony can just buy chip's off of Toshiba

or build another plant and produce them their selves if Sony wanted too....you act like the Cell is a Failure..god you are dense

-beer is on tap

 

Sony has sold their chip facilities to Toshiba for cheap because they could no longer finance the losses.

Toshiba now holds more patents to CELL then Sony AND is making them for Sony and themselves.

Apart from the PS3 Toshiba is also the only company actually putting CELL in a consumer product because hey they have it so why not use it.

Toshiba and IBM hold all the cards here, Sony has none left. Sony cant demand further development of CELL because they abandoned the project themselves, Sony cant expect economies of scale to lower the price of CELL and is at the mercy of Toshiba since they have no fabrication facilities left nor the money to start any(that entire thing with being in debt several billion dollars and all you know).

 

In short the future of CELL is screwed and so is Sony with regards to CELL.

 



Fishie on 24 February 2009
heruamon said:
BTW...what kind of beer are we talking about...lol...I'm a heineken man myself.

 

 Here in Belgium Heineken is considered an insult.

Saying You drink Heineken is much worse then saying I did your mom.



Fishie on 24 February 2009
joeorc said:
Cueil said:
joeorc said:

 

@

Cueil

No one needs to read past your ignorant 9 core statement to know that you don't even have the slightest clue as to what you're talking about. How about doing some research on the Cell before spewing out number some idiot post on the official PlayStation forums. SPEs are not cores and they most certainly don't all run at 3.2 ghz the Cell is an asynchronous processor. If your ignorance was any greater you would choke and die on it. Multiplats look better on the 360 because the system was designed as a gaming platform first and formost and was build with developers wishes in mind.

 

your a very funny guy..IF you would have done research your self , you would have indeed known that the SPU's are indeed CORES

I GUESS you know more about it than

Dr. H. Peter Hofstee, Cell Chief Scientist and Cell Synergistic Processor Chief Architect

"The use of multi-core processors, such as the IBM Cell Processor" you can't be a multi-core processor with only one Core

One of the Multi-Core sessions will be led by Dr. H. Peter Hofstee, Cell Chief Scientist and Cell Synergistic Processor Chief Architect, with the IBM Systems and Technology Group. Hofstee joined the IBM Austin Research Laboratory in 1996 where he worked on the world's first 1GHz CMOS integer microprocessor. In 2001, he was one of the founding members of the joint Sony-Toshiba-IBM design center in Austin to develop the next generation of microprocessors for the broadband era. Dr. Hofstee received his Ph.D. in computer science from Caltech in 1995 and was on the faculty there through 1996.

"Dr. Hofstee's participation in the conference is a huge plus for the industry," said Dr. Winthrop Smith, leader of the Multi-Core Processor Tutorial. "The cell processor will affect all players in the digital entertainment, enterprise computing and semiconductor industry sectors. Dr. Hofstee will be able to share his unique insight with conference attendees."

 

dr. Hofstee say's they are Core's..hmm who is right you or the:

Dr. H. Peter Hofstee, Cell Chief Scientist and Cell Synergistic Processor Chief Architect

 

 

 

 

 He can call his shit what ever they fuck he wants, but they are not cores... The Cell itself is a core that has one PPC and 8 SPEs.  We can argue over this bs all day and never get anywhere, but a multi-core system isn't a CPU with some specilized "processors" on it...

yea let's just ignore the man who designed the "D@MN chip itself"

 

did you design the chip?

did you ?

i tend to think he know's more about his D@MN CHIP THAN YOU DO

 

 

One man designed the chip?

Weird, I thought it was a bunch of people at IBM emerging technologies who took their existing single core PPC designs and adapted it for two next gen systems in two different ways while trying to maintain for both designs as high a floating point operation count as they could get at the expense of general purpose execution.

 

I must be wrong because you keep saying it was this one dude with a DR in front of his name that designed it.

My bad I guess.