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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Is It Time For MS To Eat Crow....

mmnin on 14 February 2009

I wouldn't expect Microsoft to give a nod Sony's way on Bluray. They are a competitor and with Bluray being passed up for Digital Downloads and people still happy with their regular DVDs, I don't think that they would want to add to its popularity. They started this trying to hurt Sony and they will finish it trying to hurt Sony as long as it isn't a benefit to them to not. I would say they will continue with Digital downloads hoping that Bluray will fizzle in the next 5 yrs possibly costing Sony so much in the meantime that they continue their downsizing to the point that they no longer hold a threat to MS.

Sony, a big competitor, is bleeding, why start bandaging it when it looks like you might declare victory?




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mysticD on 14 February 2009

Why would you even want one, now that you can pick up bluray for around $125-150? Stand alone would offer more benefit at this stage ... let not even bring up 360 glaring shortcoming like the loud fans, and the dreaded RROD.



S.T.A.G.E. on 14 February 2009
Infamy79 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
outlawauron said:
ryu1976 said:
no crow, just dlc :)

BR is the new betamax

Not really. If big movie releases like Iron Man sell more BluRays than the DVDs, I'd say that's a pretty big accomplishment.

 

BR is secondary, just like HD-DVD was. Sony raped their 3rd system by whoring it to drop price for the non-gaming audience. There is no reason for other videogame systems to go BR. Microsoft didn't see a need to help out HD-DVD (hence why it died out) and neither will they for BR. They are looking at things that matter that will actually draw large crowds. Unlike Blu Ray....downloads are the future. The next big screen style will be hologram. I saw it on CNN during the Nov 4th results of the US presidential elections. Will-I-am from the Black Eyed Peas was talking to Wolf Blitzer via Hologram live. It was great.

 

 

 Wasn't this fake?

 

Um...no. It wasn't fake.



richardhutnik on 14 February 2009
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Infamy79 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

BR is secondary, just like HD-DVD was. Sony raped their 3rd system by whoring it to drop price for the non-gaming audience. There is no reason for other videogame systems to go BR. Microsoft didn't see a need to help out HD-DVD (hence why it died out) and neither will they for BR. They are looking at things that matter that will actually draw large crowds. Unlike Blu Ray....downloads are the future. The next big screen style will be hologram. I saw it on CNN during the Nov 4th results of the US presidential elections. Will-I-am from the Black Eyed Peas was talking to Wolf Blitzer via Hologram live. It was great.

 

 Wasn't this fake?

Um...no. It wasn't fake.

 

It is not fake, but I didn't see the entire number of disks controversy.  What I did see was issues with why iD wanted to have a game that required a harddrive.  I do believe I saw the other quote with iD complaining about the licensing agreement on the number of disks, that would force them to go to 2 disks.



Fumanchu on 14 February 2009

^What? Of course that was fake, in the sense that there wasn't a live hologram interacting with the interviewer - it was composited in later. Blitzer was just looking at the red cushion on the ground, it wasn't an image projector.



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richardhutnik on 14 February 2009

In regards to the question about a BluRay addon, while it was hinted early on Microsoft might do it (I believe Microsoft said this when they had the HDDVD add on for sale), the answer now is looking to be no. Here is reasons why it likely won't happen, or shouldn't happen:
1. The number one home console, Wii, doesn't even play movies in North America (and likely Europe). I believe the Japanese Wii does play DVDs. So, what movies a system plays isn't as big of a deal for its sales.
2. The HDDVD add-on didn't sell well at all.
3. The cost for a BluRay add-on would likely be similar to the HDDVD add-on, that being around $200. It will be close to the price range for a dedicated BluRay player.
4. The BluRay disks won't be used for games at all, so not help there.
5. Microsoft is backing streaming and downloads now, as seen with Netflix.
6. BluRay read speed is too slow now to be effective for gaming. It can in some contexts, but apparently publishers are doing tricks with the PS3 version of multiported titles to get them to load up comparible to the 360. They also rely on installs of games for this to.

I am sure people can and have named other reasons. But as of now, it doesn't seem likely.

Now, is BluRay possible for the next generation on Microsoft (and Nintendo?). Well, possibly, if BluRay is the best storage medium for games you buy off the shelf. The drives are cheaper and have sufficient storage. Next generation will need at least BluRay storage, because 1080P will likely be the target resolution games will be designed to. As of now, high def market penetration is not there yet to fully support this.



Millennium on 14 February 2009

The 360 needs no Blu-Ray add-on, pretty much for the same reason it never needed an HD-DVD add-on. They couldn't put games on either format (as this would require a major external peripheral), so the only thing it would do is add bloat.



Complexity is not depth. Machismo is not maturity. Obsession is not dedication. Tedium is not challenge. Support gaming: support the Wii.

Be the ultimate ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today! Poisson Village welcomes new players.

What do I hate about modern gaming? I hate tedium replacing challenge, complexity replacing depth, and domination replacing entertainment. I hate the outsourcing of mechanics to physics textbooks, art direction to photocopiers, and story to cheap Hollywood screenwriters. I hate the confusion of obsession with dedication, style with substance, new with gimmicky, old with obsolete, new with evolutionary, and old with time-tested.
There is much to hate about modern gaming. That is why I support the Wii.

Infamy79 on 14 February 2009
Fumanchu said:
^What? Of course that was fake, in the sense that there wasn't a live hologram interacting with the interviewer - it was composited in later. Blitzer was just looking at the red cushion on the ground, it wasn't an image projector.

 

I thought I remembered that correctly, thanks for the reassurance



Never argue with idiots
They bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience

endimion on 14 February 2009
WereKitten said:

Some of you guys downtalking BR at all costs seem to live in their own small bubble, or to be in utter denial.

1) streaming content is nice and everything. But when will everyone who want to see a movie have a steadily reliable 30-40 Mps connection (that's the bandwidth of a BR during playback)? And you have to have this connection _wherever_ and anytime you want to see the content. Want to see a movie while commuting on a portable reader? Want to entertain kids with their favourite Pixar movie during a car travel? Want to bring a few movies at a friend's in the middle of nowhere? Is streaming the answer in these cases? I think you need a physical digital medium.

Plus you talk as if USA or NA is the whole world. There's no Netflix in the rest of the world, and in most countries there's not the net infrastructure required for a reliable distribution. Things will get much better in say a 5 years timespan, but why should I buy _today_ a DVD if I can have so much better content with $5 more?

2) given that _today_ we need a better medium, BR is an obvious upgrade because it is back-compatible with the bulk of DVD content out there. And having 10-100x space on a disc is also great for games and software, as new PCs and laptops are more and more coming with BR drives instead of DVDs.

3) going back to the original topic (consoles): don't delude yourself by saying that DVD is "good enough" for games. There are several games on xbox360 _right now_ that span several discs. And while changing the occasional disc in Lost Odissey might not be that bad (how many of them? 4?), what about less linear, free roaming games where disc changing is not as easily interspersed with gameplay.

Case: Id's "Rage". John Carmack already said that their greatest trouble with the 360 version is the storage medium. They will have to go with lesser res megatextures in the 360 version to fit the game in 2 DVDs... and only the licensing costs are keeping them from using the 3 DVDs they need to match the PS3 and PC versions.

And the bigger, the more complex, the less linear games become, the worse this will be an issue. Compound by the fact that xbox360 doesn't even have an HD as a base spec.

In the 3 years from today to next gen xbox, I think that they will have to bite the bullet: there will be multiplatform games that will have HD and/or BR as a requirement for the xbox360 version. Then, with the next gen, an HD will be in the specs and a better optical storage will be needed because, again, in 3 years from now there's no way that the greatest part of the userbase can see downloading 50-100 Gb as viable or convenient. MS could go with their own optical format, but in 3 years BR will have a significant share of the movie market, especially for newfangled blockbusters, thus it just makes sense for their drive to be able to read BR _in addition_ to any digital distribution.

For the next-next-gen (6-10 years from now) the bandwidth availability will have probably improved enough to seriously think about ditching discs in some cases... then we can talk again :)

Edit: typo

 

first of i'd like to say nice try... but you are the one living maybe not in your own buble but just taking in account an extremely limited choice of alternatives to BR... puting BR as the most likely emergent tech in the future and imo it's were your analyse fails....

 

1) about connection speed... well maybe in north america... and you are right.... i pay 100 bucks for a 3mbps cable connection and extended cable which i think is a pure rip off... for more than half the price back home i have more than 6 time that connection speed in DSL plus about 200 channel with some in HD a free landline telephone on which I don't pay for outgoing calls to another lanline and don't pay for incoming calls at all... and if the connection crash for X reason I have a free dial up connection as a back up... so yeah in 3 years I expect a all bunch of countries outside USA maybe that will be able to have 100% live stream HD capabilities.... for a small cost

now even with lower connection... why would you have to be in 100% live streaming ???? you can buffer part of the movie and start watching it while it keeps DL... the time it takes me to go buy a BR at wallmart or to go to blockbuster if it's still open I would have started the movie back home....

 

now if I'm on trip and I want to take movies for the kids... I certainly will not choose a poor option such as disc support BR HD DVD DVD or anything in that shape... why should I... when I can have a terrabite HDD for cheaper than the cost of an equivalent disc capacity in one of those format ????

 

no netflix ???? like I waited to be in US to watch stuff online ???? that's odd... north america is well behind in terms of internet capabilities compare to japan and europe which are the 2 other main market for either console or movie distribution.... I've been living here for a while I love the country.... you are the first economic power in the world but if there is an area where you are well behind it's definately telecomunications...

 

2) good point but cost of production of a BR and ways of distribution doesn't justify the switch yet... and once again if they chose to make a switch I hope to god they won't do it on scratchable short lasting life span disc... you realise CD DVD or BR have all a shorter life expectency than the good old floppy disk ???? that stuff is a joke and should be totally wiped out of the computer industry in my geek opinion.... in the future I expect to go to the store with my USB disk buy a software through a vitual machine DL it on it go back home and use it.. certainly not buying a disc... or even better leaving my ass at home and go online buy my soft DL it and run it.... like I already do for most products...

without taking in account that we are going faster and faster towards the cloud computing concept.... another topic but still tgood to keep in mind for our equation.... do you think they all spend millions for R and D in that field just to please there nerdy needs ???? do you think in the current economy and ecologic condition developing more and more expensive tech will be the way to go... in addition to the ecological impact... and trust me politician and companies are taking it in account seriously... not that they really care about the outcome... but they see their a way to save money and most of all green is the new marketing trend for the century... in other words IT SELLS

 

2) yeah you are right again but blinding yourself to 2 options stay with DVD or go BR... I discard both... being both retard unriable un efficient options.... I expect my next gen console to have a proeminent HDD and being able to stock at least 30 games on it that I'll have DL online or through the same vistual distribution concept in store.... and have maybe a BR and DVD player but for the saoul purpose of backward compatibility... any other choice from them will deceive me greatly... and just prove my point that they are just trying to make money out of their useless investement instead of offering us the best option and the most cost efficient...

 

so yeah I see your point and would have agreed 5 years ago... but at the speed tech is going in telecoms... and storage capacity for the price... BR is a pure marketing joke.... any way you look at it... you are talking about 100Gb on the next gen ??? I expect the memory card to be that size and the HDD at least 10 times that.... come on I know I'm a bit of a geek but I had close to a terra already 6 years ago

you can find HDD of 1 TB for less than a 100 bucks today imagine in 3 years from now....

 

so enough with the BS already all the tech for what I'm saying is out there... they don't need much R and D implement them... look at the archos 7 yeah it's expensive still... but it could be a lot cheaper... especially in a box the size of the XB or PS with no screen integrated...

so yeah keep fighting over your format war and avoid my statements.... discs suck and that's it... the future is not into optical media... and if they keep that direction they are just being retarded... in my opinion they won't but hell who knows they did come out with the HD dvd and BR when it was absolutely unnecessary and not cost efficient... but I doubt they'll do twice the same mistake just for the sake of flashing in the eyes of the customer this time look what it cost them.... remember the 2 HD consoles ARE FIGHTING FOR THE SECOND SEAT!!!!!



reask on 14 February 2009
Galaki said:
Xbox 360 is a video game machine first and media player second. Why would they need to add a movie player?

Well if you are running your 360 through a HD TV it would be nice to have the option of picking up a BR movie to watch on your TV.