By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony Discussion - PS3 Shuts Up Gabe Newell!

Garnett said:
Final-Fan said:
^ A little too obvious -- "wut" is too well-known as a joke spelling.
I used it as the "What the hell did he just say" type "what".

Are you saying you don't understand what I said, or you don't know what I'm alluding to? 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Around the Network
MikeB said:

@ Deneidez

Data processing can normally always be split up in smaller parts and executable code is tiny, results are passed around quickly within the PS3 architecture.

...
You really need to write down a more concrete example for me to follow you, maybe I can provide you with a smart work around to your problems.

Blaa... Blaa... Tell me something I don't know already. More concrete example? Uhm, how about fibonacci numbers in parallel? Yes, (easiest) answer is functional programming, but but... SPUs don't support functional programming. Too bad... Oh well, you can always use PPE only. :)



One fairly good game exists on the console therefore the console is not a failure

Shenmue and Smash Bros Melee want a word.

It's the hiphopgamer, so we can all ignore him and move along



Deneidez said:
MikeB said:

@ Deneidez

Data processing can normally always be split up in smaller parts and executable code is tiny, results are passed around quickly within the PS3 architecture.

...
You really need to write down a more concrete example for me to follow you, maybe I can provide you with a smart work around to your problems.

Blaa... Blaa... Tell me something I don't know already. More concrete example? Uhm, how about fibonacci numbers in parallel? Yes, (easiest) answer is functional programming, but but... SPUs don't support functional programming. Too bad... Oh well, you can always use PPE only. :)

Of course such high level programming languages can be ported. I know some people who have created their own programming languages.

Of course low level and high level imperative languages are the industry standard for games programming due to much better efficiency. It makes sense to hire a bit more talented people, instead of less talented and/or more lazy ones to extensively learn C++, C, assembler, etc instead and yield great performance gains.

I was specificallly talking about games engine development.

 



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

Final-Fan said:
Garnett said:
Final-Fan said:
^ A little too obvious -- "wut" is too well-known as a joke spelling.
I used it as the "What the hell did he just say" type "what".

Are you saying you don't understand what I said, or you don't know what I'm alluding to?

I dont understand a dang thing you said.



Around the Network
MikeB said:
Deneidez said:

Blaa... Blaa... Tell me something I don't know already. More concrete example? Uhm, how about fibonacci numbers in parallel? Yes, (easiest) answer is functional programming, but but... SPUs don't support functional programming. Too bad... Oh well, you can always use PPE only. :)

Of course such high level programming languages can be ported. I know some people who have created their own programming languages.

Ok, can I now ask for concrete example of functional programming language that has been made for SPUs and working program that calculates fibonacci numbers? :)

 

You want more concrete examples or easier to understand examples? Ok, here we go...

How about example of that 10MB blocks & 200MB program with depencies on previous results and whole 10MB block.

So for every integer you must randomly choose one another integer from the same 10MB block you got the integer and randomly choose the way(add, substract, derivate function depending on those two integers, integrate function etc. up to 50 possible branches) you calculate the sub result.

1. Get one integer from 10MB block, calculate sub result and save it.

After getting sub result you must randomly decide do you need more subresults. For every sub result you will have to lower the possibility of need of new sub result(means go to step 1) by 1% and it starts from 99%. (So after first sub result theres 99% chance to be one more sub result. After that 98% etc.)

2. Randomly choose is there need for more calculations, if there is go to step 1 and substract 1% from chance of more calculations.

And to confirm that you do understand what I mean, heres pseudocode:

while(there is still integers in current 10MB block)

{

  integerToProcess=currentIntegerInFirstWhile;

  while(continue)

  {

    possibilityToContinue=99;

    foo=randomlyChooseOneIntegerFrom10MBBlock();

    bar=someRandomFunctionFrom50DifferentFunctions(integerToProcess,foo);

    if((random(1-100)-possibilityToContinue)>0)

       continue=false;

    possibilityToContinue--;

  }

}

You do know what happens when all of those SPUs(and PPU) must get their stuff from main mem? You cannot store 10MB into SPUs memories. Neither you can store results of every branch and use them. You could of course make datastreams of what to do for SPUs but that would mean too much work for PPU, because those streams could be veeery long and of course they could be way too large for mem in some cases. You do know how this would work on X360, don't you? :)

Others:

Sorry if you didn't understand anything. ^^



Final-Fan said:
Garnett said:
Procrastinato said:
Garnett said:
Thats nice but still 256 is small amount of RAM,The PS3 is a fine piece of hardware but small ram,its like being the sexiest man on earth but having a small (CENSORED)
it dosent perform very well,Red Faction dosent think the PS3 can do much more at least for there game,but netiher can the 360 really.(And Red Faction devs said that they cant put the game ON ps3 due to its memory.)

Ugh dude PPU > SPU (You do know what a PPU Is right? Physics Processing Unit,
 (B)Which can do mroe than ANY processor can do YES even the C311)
All 7 SPU adds up to 3.2ghz thats 1 360 core,But the SPU can do different things at once while the 360 CPU cannot.
You sir, are awesome. (C)That Physics Processing Unit line almost made me spill my beer! Kudos to funnymakers like yourself. (D)7 SPUs add up to 3.2 GHz... pure awesome.

I don't know how it is people cannot see obvious humor when its posted here. Garnett isn't serious. Come on. Physics Processing Unit? He didn't even get that from Wikipedia! He is joking.
(A)I mean in Physics of course,not in general processing.
His act is impeccable. (1)It took me a minute to decipher the meaning, (2)which if I'm right is irrelevant to (3)what I believe Procrastinato was referring to.

Here's what I meant: 

(1) At first I couldn't figure out what the heck you meant by (A), but then I realized that it would make sense if you were referring to (B), that is, the performance of the PPE. 

(2) This has nothing to do with (3). 

(3) When Procrastinato said (C), I won't deny that it's at least remotely possible that he could be referring to performance; but it's much more likely that he was referring to the fact that it's the Power Processor Element [edit:  or Unit] and certainly not Physics Processing Unit.  The SPEs are Synergistic Processing Elements.  (It would be fairly understandable if you had thought PPE and SPE meant Primary/Secondary.) 

When he said (D), there can be no question IMO that he was referring to the fact that the SPEs EACH run at 3.2 GHz, not that they ADD UP to 3.2 GHz (or ~457MHz each) -- let alone the fact that "adding up" the speeds would make absolutely zero sense. 

Additionally, the implication of what you said is that the Cell only has 2/3 the power of the Xenon (though the Cell is better at multitasking).  No wonder Gears of War 2 looks so great! 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan said:
Final-Fan said:
Garnett said:
Procrastinato said:
Garnett said:
Thats nice but still 256 is small amount of RAM,The PS3 is a fine piece of hardware but small ram,its like being the sexiest man on earth but having a small (CENSORED)
it dosent perform very well,Red Faction dosent think the PS3 can do much more at least for there game,but netiher can the 360 really.(And Red Faction devs said that they cant put the game ON ps3 due to its memory.)

Ugh dude PPU > SPU (You do know what a PPU Is right? Physics Processing Unit,
(B)Which can do mroe than ANY processor can do YES even the C311)
All 7 SPU adds up to 3.2ghz thats 1 360 core,But the SPU can do different things at once while the 360 CPU cannot.
You sir, are awesome. (C)That Physics Processing Unit line almost made me spill my beer! Kudos to funnymakers like yourself. (D)7 SPUs add up to 3.2 GHz... pure awesome.

I don't know how it is people cannot see obvious humor when its posted here. Garnett isn't serious. Come on. Physics Processing Unit? He didn't even get that from Wikipedia! He is joking.
(A)I mean in Physics of course,not in general processing.
His act is impeccable. (1)It took me a minute to decipher the meaning, (2)which if I'm right is irrelevant to (3)what I believe Procrastinato was referring to.

Here's what I meant:

(1) At first I couldn't figure out what the heck you meant by (A), but then I realized that it would make sense if you were referring to (B), that is, the performance of the PPE.

(2) This has nothing to do with (3).

(3) When Procrastinato said (C), I won't deny that it's at least remotely possible that he could be referring to performance; but it's much more likely that he was referring to the fact that it's the PPE, or Power Processor Element, not PPU and certainly not Physics Processing Unit. The SPEs are Synergistic Processing Elements. (It would be fairly understandable if you had thought PPE and SPE meant Primary/Secondary.)

When he said (D), there can be no question IMO that he was referring to the fact that the SPEs EACH run at 3.2 GHz, not that they ADD UP to 3.2 GHz (or ~457MHz each) -- let alone the fact that "adding up" the speeds would make absolutely zero sense.

Additionally, the implication of what you said is that the Cell only has 2/3 the power of the Xenon (though the Cell is better at multitasking). No wonder Gears of War 2 looks so great!

I knew what you meant i just didnt know what those big fancy words meant,not impeccable but Procrastinato.

 

 



Deneidez said:
MikeB said:
Deneidez said:

Blaa... Blaa... Tell me something I don't know already. More concrete example? Uhm, how about fibonacci numbers in parallel? Yes, (easiest) answer is functional programming, but but... SPUs don't support functional programming. Too bad... Oh well, you can always use PPE only. :)

Of course such high level programming languages can be ported. I know some people who have created their own programming languages.

Ok, can I now ask for concrete example of functional programming language that has been made for SPUs and working program that calculates fibonacci numbers? :)

 

You want more concrete examples or easier to understand examples? Ok, here we go...

How about example of that 10MB blocks & 200MB program with depencies on previous results and whole 10MB block.

So for every integer you must randomly choose one another integer from the same 10MB block you got the integer and randomly choose the way(add, substract, derivate function depending on those two integers, integrate function etc. up to 50 possible branches) you calculate the sub result.

1. Get one integer from 10MB block, calculate sub result and save it.

After getting sub result you must randomly decide do you need more subresults. For every sub result you will have to lower the possibility of need of new sub result(means go to step 1) by 1% and it starts from 99%. (So after first sub result theres 99% chance to be one more sub result. After that 98% etc.)

2. Randomly choose is there need for more calculations, if there is go to step 1 and substract 1% from chance of more calculations.

And to confirm that you do understand what I mean, heres pseudocode:

while(there is still integers in current 10MB block)

{

  integerToProcess=currentIntegerInFirstWhile;

  while(continue)

  {

    possibilityToContinue=99;

    foo=randomlyChooseOneIntegerFrom10MBBlock();

    bar=someRandomFunctionFrom50DifferentFunctions(integerToProcess,foo);

    if((random(1-100)-possibilityToContinue)>0)

       continue=false;

    possibilityToContinue--;

  }

}

You do know what happens when all of those SPUs(and PPU) must get their stuff from main mem? You cannot store 10MB into SPUs memories. Neither you can store results of every branch and use them. You could of course make datastreams of what to do for SPUs but that would mean too much work for PPU, because those streams could be veeery long and of course they could be way too large for mem in some cases. You do know how this would work on X360, don't you? :)

Others:

Sorry if you didn't understand anything. ^^

Can the PS3 run this code?

ON CATURDAY
  IM IN YR BED
  I IZ SLEEPIN!!10
  VISIBLE "Z!"
  KTHX
KTHXBYE

Or this code?

HAI
CAN HAS STDIO?
PLZ OPEN FILE "LOLCATS.TXT"?
                AWSUM THX
  VISIBLE FILE
  O NOES
  INVISIBLE "ERROR!"
KTHXBYE

 



Tease.

Garnett said:
Final-Fan said:
Final-Fan said:
Garnett said:
Procrastinato said:
Garnett said:
Thats nice but still 256 is small amount of RAM,The PS3 is a fine piece of hardware but small ram,its like being the sexiest man on earth but having a small (CENSORED)
it dosent perform very well,Red Faction dosent think the PS3 can do much more at least for there game,but netiher can the 360 really.(And Red Faction devs said that they cant put the game ON ps3 due to its memory.)

Ugh dude PPU > SPU (You do know what a PPU Is right? Physics Processing Unit,
(B)Which can do mroe than ANY processor can do YES even the C311)
All 7 SPU adds up to 3.2ghz thats 1 360 core,But the SPU can do different things at once while the 360 CPU cannot.
You sir, are awesome. (C)That Physics Processing Unit line almost made me spill my beer! Kudos to funnymakers like yourself. (D)7 SPUs add up to 3.2 GHz... pure awesome.

I don't know how it is people cannot see obvious humor when its posted here. Garnett isn't serious. Come on. Physics Processing Unit? He didn't even get that from Wikipedia! He is joking.
(A)I mean in Physics of course,not in general processing.
His act is impeccable. (1)It took me a minute to decipher the meaning, (2)which if I'm right is irrelevant to (3)what I believe Procrastinato was referring to.

Here's what I meant:

(1) At first I couldn't figure out what the heck you meant by (A), but then I realized that it would make sense if you were referring to (B), that is, the performance of the PPE.

(2) This has nothing to do with (3).

(3) When Procrastinato said (C), I won't deny that it's at least remotely possible that he could be referring to performance; but it's much more likely that he was referring to the fact that it's the PPE, or Power Processor Element, not PPU and certainly not Physics Processing Unit. The SPEs are Synergistic Processing Elements. (It would be fairly understandable if you had thought PPE and SPE meant Primary/Secondary.)

When he said (D), there can be no question IMO that he was referring to the fact that the SPEs EACH run at 3.2 GHz, not that they ADD UP to 3.2 GHz (or ~457MHz each) -- let alone the fact that "adding up" the speeds would make absolutely zero sense.

Additionally, the implication of what you said is that the Cell only has 2/3 the power of the Xenon (though the Cell is better at multitasking). No wonder Gears of War 2 looks so great!

I knew what you meant i just didnt know what those big fancy words meant,not impeccable but Procrastinato.

But ... you ... ?

If you knew what I was getting at, but not some specific word definitions, there's always the dictionary

P.S.  I remembered that PPU/SPU is an alternate term (the only difference is "... Unit".)  My above post has been edited in the original to reflect this. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom!